Right. Given the high quality of discussion on OTC about other issues, it would be nice to have some Troper input on this thorniest of Middle Eastern issues. Tropers wanting a brief overview of Israel should check out its Useful Notes page, or Israel
and Palestine's country profiles on the BBC.
At the outset, however, I want to make something very clear: This thread will be about sharing and discussing news. Discussions about whether the existence of Israel is justified would be off-topic, as would any extended argument or analysis about the countries' history.
So, let's start off:
At the moment, the two countries, prodded by the United States, are currently attempting to negotiate peace. A previous round of talks collapsed in 2010 after Israel refused to order a halt to settlement building on Palestinian land. US mediators will be present.
The aim of the talks is to end the conflict based on the "two state solution" - where independent Palestinian and Israeli states exist alongside each other. Both sides have expressed cynicism, although the US government has said it is "cautiously optimistic".
Key issues of the talks:
- Jerusalem: The city is holy to both Islam and Judaism. Both Palestine and Israel claim it as their capital. Israel has de facto control over most of it, a situation its Prime Minister has said will persist for "eternity". Some campaigners hope it can become an international city under UN or joint Israeli/Palestinian administration.
- Borders and settlements: The Palestinian Authority claims that the land conquered by Israel in the Six Day War of 1967 (the West Bank and the Gaza Strip) is illegally occupied, and must be vacated by Israel in the event of a future Palestinian state. However, there are over 500,000 Israeli citizens living in settlements across the "Green line". Israel claims that a future Palestinian government would oppress or ethnically cleanse them, whilst many settlers claim that the land is rightfully theirs, as they have an ethno-religious link to it as part of the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people.
- Palestinian refugees: In 1948, around 700,000 Palestinian Arabs left the territory of the new Israeli state. The reasons why are still debated - preferably elsewhere. The Palestinian negotiators wish for them and their descendants to have a right of return to Israel. The Israeli government considers only those who were actually forced away all those years ago to have a legitimate claim (if that). The US government considers them all refugees, to Republican fury.
So you can see why its never been fixed. The religious dimension in particular has a lot of people vexed - asking Muslims or Jews to abandon Jerusalem has been likened to asking Catholics to skip communion.
Still, there's hope. Somewhere. The latest developments in the region:
- Israel has released 26 imprisoned Palestinian prisoners convicted of attacks on Israeli civilians and agreed to release another 78 in the future.
- Israel has OK'ed development of 900 new homes east of the "Green Line" in a controversial move ahead of the talks.
- Hamas is to execute publicly two prisoners in Gaza
- The new Palestinian government will not reunite the feuding Gazan and Transjordanian (West Bank) elements of Hamas and Fatah.
edited 15th Aug '13 2:10:49 PM by Achaemenid
Beware the Crazy Man.
Still an active conflict.
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
@Angelsu,
Yes, it might be true that th Middle East have been particularly warlike the past recent years. What is not true, however, is this have been a trend over centuries. Before the mid 20th century, war was fairly common pretty much everywhere and Middle East was not particularly more warlike than the rest. In fact, the region have been mostly under control of the Ottoman Empire for centuries, so you can even say it was a relatively stable place.
A procrastination in of itself
The list of Ongoing Armed Conflicts[1] has a map. Even if you limit it to just wars North America and South Asia are both in there with Eastern Europe, Africa and the Middle East.
edited 22nd Apr '15 1:40:59 PM by Silasw
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
So I was hoping I wouldn't have to point out what my source was. I hoped people would either know me well enough to get that I'm sharing a joke article I found funny - even if I presented it in a faux-serious tone - or assume that anyone sharing articles from The Onion would know what The Onion is.
Then again I suppose people do sometimes mistake The Onion's articles for real news (a failure of reading comprehension I find less amusing than infuriating) so maybe it's not that much of a stretch to imagine that even in OTC someone might make that mistake.
Should've potholed to Joking Mode or something.
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
United Earth
The ambiguity is the whole point of an Onion Link.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
(Avatar by Coffee)
I know Onion's a joke, but, as you've said, I've seen people think it's for real, so I wanted to check.
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
http://news.yahoo.com/israel-grapples-whether-recognize-armenian-genocide-121403467.html
is...intersting to see how israel deals with this considering their history, some are optimistic
"As the children of a people that has known a Holocaust and which fights against its denial, it behooves us to show special sensitivity to the disaster of another people," the petition reads.
other....no so much
"We are after all the 'experts' on genocide, so it is doubly important," he said. "But in a way, we too are Holocaust deniers, so long as it isn't our Holocaust."
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
This probably will boil down to whether Bibi thinks he can get away with offending the Turkish government. But then the guy has already managed to piss off a good part of the US government, so why not go all the way?
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
Shameful Display
The Turks already hate Israel so why the hell is Bibi trying to keep them happy,unless our government is putting pressure on them to not use the G word.
I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
The law in the night
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
To be fair if he does piss off the Turkish government it will be for everyone's amusement since well, it is not like Erdogan hasn't been acting like a total douche.
edited 23rd Apr '15 8:19:29 AM by AngelusNox
Inter arma enim silent leges
United Earth
Israel and Turkey get along quite well. Generally.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Shameful Display
You mean got along. Ever since Erdogan got elected things have been going downhill. And the raid on the Turkish aid flotilla did not help.
United Earth
Yeah, that raid was diplomatic genius on Israel's part.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Beware the Crazy Man.
Actually I think it has less to do with the US and Turkey and more to do with Azerbaijan. Having a willing outpost on the border with Iran for use in spying and other things would be worth keeping happy by never siding with Armenia.
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
Shameful Display
Oh right I forgot about Azerbajan. Yeah than the Armenians are going to have to go this one without Israeli moral support. What does most of the Arab world think about the Armenian genocide,if anything?
edited 23rd Apr '15 10:39:44 AM by JackOLantern1337
I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Thus speaks yoneld:
Another part of the reason why Israel won't recognize the Armenian Genocide is because the Hebrew term used in most discussions is "Shoah", which would be quite controversial to use.
Fear of a name increases fear of the thing itself.
(Avatar by Coffee)
Well, people can always refer to it as the Armenian Genocide (רצח העם הארמני) if they want to recognise it without using the word שואה — it's what most people do with Darfour, for example.
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
Thus speaks yoneld:
That's why I said it's part of the reason, because that can easily be circumvented. That's what people try to tell themselves so they'll feel better about it.
edited 23rd Apr '15 11:41:42 AM by yoneld
Fear of a name increases fear of the thing itself.
Beware the Crazy Man.
Armenians and Arabs generally get along fine (nothing bad, nothing good, just normal). Lot of Armenians made a good life in Syria after the fall of the Ottoman Empire.
On the Genocide though, depends on how much they like or hate Turks or Iranians.
edited 23rd Apr '15 1:21:18 PM by FFShinra
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
Thus speaks yoneld:
Egypt has bad relations both with Turkey and with Iran. Not sure about Saudi Arabia, though. Qatar has good relations with both.
Fear of a name increases fear of the thing itself.
(Avatar by Coffee)
Saudi Arabia hates Iran's guts.
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
Thus speaks yoneld:
That's quite well-known. I was referring to the relations with Turkey.
Fear of a name increases fear of the thing itself.
Thus speaks yoneld:
Potential reopening of the Fatah-Hamas rift as Fatah ministers cancel Gaza visit.
No frontlines, no battles, no military mobilization and no country wide conflict.
edited 22nd Apr '15 11:09:50 AM by AngelusNox
Inter arma enim silent leges