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Israel and Palestine:

Total posts: [6,725]
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626 FFShinra13th Mar 2014 02:25:44 PM from Ivalice, apparently , Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Beware the Crazy Man.
[up][up]Damn. I was so close.sad
Final Fantasy, Foreign Policy, and Bollywood. Helluva combo, that...
627 DeviantBraeburn13th Mar 2014 02:29:32 PM from Dysfunctional California
628 TheHandle13th Mar 2014 02:30:44 PM from Barcelona , Relationship Status: In love with love
Everyone thinks Mossad killed Arafat. Talk about Poisoning The Well.

edited 13th Mar '14 2:32:57 PM by TheHandle

The most dangerous thingin Americain the world.
629 Achaemenid13th Mar 2014 02:43:12 PM from beyond the Wall. , Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
[up]

Or poisoning the Palestinian, as the case may be.
Denn träf' jede Kugel apart ihren Mann,

Wo kriegten die Könige ihre Soldaten dann?
630 DeviantBraeburn13th Mar 2014 02:46:01 PM from Dysfunctional California
631 TheHandle13th Mar 2014 02:52:25 PM from Barcelona , Relationship Status: In love with love
There's an organization called Islamic Jihad? Isn't that a tad presumptuous?
The most dangerous thingin Americain the world.
632 Achaemenid13th Mar 2014 02:54:31 PM from beyond the Wall. , Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
[up]

Well sure, but there's plenty like that. The Muslim Brotherhood do not speak for all Muslims. The endless "Workers" parties don't speak for all workers. The US Democrats do not speak for eveyone who believes in democracy.

Nobody is going to call their party: "Islam-According-To-Our-Rather-Narrow-Interpretation Jihad" tongue Try fitting that on a placard.
Denn träf' jede Kugel apart ihren Mann,

Wo kriegten die Könige ihre Soldaten dann?
633 TheHandle13th Mar 2014 02:58:21 PM from Barcelona , Relationship Status: In love with love
To be fair, the Brotherhood are generally referred to as "Brotherists" or "Ikhwaniyyin". It's become a catch-all term for fundamentalists, really, almost on par with the much less deferential "Ali Abu-Lahia", "Bearded Ali". What is it with the extreme right, short hair, and long facial hair?

But I'm going offtopic. Thing is, with so many Wild Card elements, it can be really tough brokering peace. And enforcing internal discipline has its own many problems, especially in resistance/guerrilla/clandestine movements.

edited 13th Mar '14 2:59:51 PM by TheHandle

The most dangerous thingin Americain the world.
634 Achaemenid13th Mar 2014 02:59:29 PM from beyond the Wall. , Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
[up]

Well, they can't wear Sayyid Qutb's facial hair, can they? tongue

edited 13th Mar '14 3:01:02 PM by Achaemenid

Denn träf' jede Kugel apart ihren Mann,

Wo kriegten die Könige ihre Soldaten dann?
635 TheHandle13th Mar 2014 03:01:15 PM from Barcelona , Relationship Status: In love with love
The most dangerous thingin Americain the world.
636 DeviantBraeburn14th Mar 2014 12:31:32 PM from Dysfunctional California
637 Achaemenid14th Mar 2014 12:38:00 PM from beyond the Wall. , Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
[up]

"You started it!"

"We did not start it!"

"Yes you did, you invaded Sinai!"
Denn träf' jede Kugel apart ihren Mann,

Wo kriegten die Könige ihre Soldaten dann?
638 MarqFJA14th Mar 2014 09:17:41 PM from Saudi Arabia , Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Everyone thinks Mossad killed Arafat. Talk about Poisoning The Well.
Well, for all we know, it could've been that Mossad discreetly manipulated Mahmoud Dahlan into doing the dirty work for them without him realizing it.

... Or, alternatively, there's a third party that is neither Israeli nor Palestinian, but has vested interest in either the Palestinians falling into even more infighting then they already have now, fanning the already blazing fires of the Palestinian-Israeli feud, or even both, and deliberately set things up so that the most likely suspect for the assassination would not be them (whoever they are).
Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
639 TheHandle15th Mar 2014 03:56:21 AM from Barcelona , Relationship Status: In love with love
Even within Israel's secret service there must be lots of Interservice Rivalry, Jurisdiction Friction, Right Hand Versus Left Hand, We ARE Struggling Together, and Gambit Pileup, among other Mind Screw elements. I'm sure there's not one single person who really knows everything that's going on. And every faction has their own idea on what's the nation (and their own) best interests.
The most dangerous thingin Americain the world.
640 DeviantBraeburn17th Mar 2014 12:22:09 PM from Dysfunctional California
641 DeviantBraeburn21st Mar 2014 12:57:51 PM from Dysfunctional California
Wandering Jew
Everything is Possible.

But some things are more Probable than others.
JEBAGEDDON 2016

642 MarqFJA21st Mar 2014 01:12:08 PM from Saudi Arabia , Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
Some non-Israeli sources for the same story: International Business Times and the UN News Centre.

Interesting fact: Richard Falk, the guy whose statements these articles are talking about, is Jewish. There goes any attempts by the pro-Israeli lobby at accusing him of Anti-Jewismnote .

edited 21st Mar '14 1:14:52 PM by MarqFJA

Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
643 Achaemenid21st Mar 2014 03:30:02 PM from beyond the Wall. , Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
[up]

There's not much point in quibbling about words with established meanings. The reason we use "anti-Semitism" for Jews is because, well, there has been so much Jew hatred - and to such unique extremes - that it needed it's own word. And sometimes attempts to erase the word can be attempts to erase the concept too. Also, Jewish people are not a hivemind. One Jew criticizing Israel is not significant.


"Ethnic cleansing" is a loaded term, but one which I think is ultimately appropriate here. Settlement building is self-destructive stupidity on the part of the settlers, and their actions will have wider - and possibly terminal - consequences for the survival of the Jewish state.
Denn träf' jede Kugel apart ihren Mann,

Wo kriegten die Könige ihre Soldaten dann?
644 Ogodei21st Mar 2014 05:05:00 PM from Republic City, URN
canon yuri? meh
[up] Indeed, because the more mangled they make the West Bank map, there comes a point where independence is no longer possible and then annexation (and accompanying integration) becomes the only outcome.
645 Achaemenid21st Mar 2014 05:20:00 PM from beyond the Wall. , Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
[up]

Well there's that; I imagine in such circumstances both push and pull factors would eventually lead to an exodus of Arabs from Palestine, with those remaining likely conducting some kind of domestic insurgency within Greater Israel, probably like Northern Ireland only ten times worse.

The thing is, a lot of the Israeli right's rhetoric is predicated on the idea that only a strong, assertive, and militarily dominant Israel can guarantee the security and continued existence of it's people. The Europeans tried to exterminate us, so the narrative goes, and as soon as we escaped the Arabs tried to destroy our country and they've never stopped. There's a kernel of truth in that, though it is an extremely simplistic view. The problem is, the mania with security and the Arab threat has left that constituency unable to envisage a route to security except through military strength. Unfortunately, such an approach is almost guaranteed to be ruinous for Israel in the long term.

The IDF is the finest military in the Middle East - possibly all Asia - and it can defeat any army the Arab states combined could put in the field (and has done, on numerous occasions, in the past). But there will come a time - in 50 years or 500 - when Israel finds the balance of power shifted, when it is weak and unable to defend itself. When that time comes, Israel will have to rely on the goodwill of it's neighbors; and it will not be able to do that if this conflict goes on.

This isn't necessarily to assign blame or find a bad guy - the Arabs have a lot to do with why the Israeli right thinks like this, and why pluralities will back them in Israeli elections - but to try and understand why Netanyahu's assertions that he is the only protector of the Jewish people are ultimately doing more to undermine their security that Hamas's shitty rockets ever could.

edited 21st Mar '14 5:28:12 PM by Achaemenid

Denn träf' jede Kugel apart ihren Mann,

Wo kriegten die Könige ihre Soldaten dann?
scratching at .8, just hopin'
There goes any attempts by the pro-Israeli lobby at accusing him of Anti-Jewism
Haven't you followed their responses to Noam Chomsky? "Self-hating" is the slur of choice.
647 MarqFJA22nd Mar 2014 06:26:40 AM from Saudi Arabia , Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
O' Allah, save Egypt
No, but from what I read of the guy on Wikipedia, I'm starting to like him. Sane and rational head on his shoulders, that's for certain.

4 Palestinians killed in clash with Israeli army. "The violence came amid a recent spike in clashes in the West Bank that could complicate the already troubled peace efforts as the sides near an April deadline set under U.S.-sponsored talks."

... Ugh, when are we going to get an independent UN with its own Army that can enforce a complete ceasefire in the region?

edited 22nd Mar '14 6:28:39 AM by MarqFJA

Ash-shaʻb yurīd isqāṭ ḥukm al-ʻaskar
648 joesolo22nd Mar 2014 06:43:36 AM , Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Indiana Solo
Somewhere around never, because it's a tool for interactions between nations? Whod decide where to send those forces?
649 TuefelHundenIV22nd Mar 2014 07:05:31 AM from Wandering. , Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchmen of the Apocalypse
Part of what makes the UN palatable is that it doesn't have its own standing army but is instead comprised of volunteer forces from participating nations. A UN that could do as it pleased would be little different then first world nations doing the same thing. Sooner rather then later it would abuse its status.

Now if you meant a international force enforcing a negotiated ceasefire that is still feasible. And like Joe noted who would decided how a standing UN army would be used? The current structure would leave any such body largely impotent and useless.

edited 22nd Mar '14 7:06:46 AM by TuefelHundenIV

"Who watches the watchmen?"
650 Greenmantle22nd Mar 2014 07:10:52 AM from Greater Wessex , Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Plus 24
[up][up] And who are the members loyal to? And what's to stop it becoming an Army of Thieves and Whores?

edited 22nd Mar '14 7:11:01 AM by Greenmantle

"It's been a long, hard road but you must carry on"

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