Ambiguous Name: Fake Skill

Total posts: [29]
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1 sunlitgarden11th Jun 2013 02:00:06 PM , Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Fake Skill, a videogame trope, is described on the page as: "This is subversion of the control the developers have on the players. Basically, the player finds ways to play the game that the developers and designers did not intend."

I don't think the definition is very clear from the name. The name makes me think of someone pretending they have a skill they don't actually have. I think "Unintended Use of Game Mechanics" (only punnier) or something similar would make more sense.

edited 11th Jun '13 2:01:58 PM by sunlitgarden

2 SeptimusHeap11th Jun 2013 02:02:05 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
With 410 inbounds, I would ask for some evidence of misunderstanding. 48 wicks is kinda little though.

Also, fixed the tag.
3 Spark911th Jun 2013 02:27:39 PM from Castle Wulfenbach , Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Wait a second... I believe this is already covered (better) by other pages, such as Good Bad Bugs. I'll have to look into this some more, but numerous examples on this page are "glitch that can be exploited to beat the game faster/better", which is precisely what Good Bad Bugs is about.

I suspect that this page needs to have its definition clarified and several of the examples moved off.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
4 sunlitgarden11th Jun 2013 02:28:55 PM , Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
It seems like people are using it to describe Sequence Breaking, Good Bad Bugs, and just general gameplay strategies. Here's one entry that seems to fit the current Fake Skill definition:

  • Pikmin: In Pikmin 2, if you find a drop of spray (red or purple), it is possible to get 2 doses out of one drop by getting both your captains close to the droplet, and pushing the inactive captain with the active captain. The inactive captain will start to collect it, and if you get the active captain to start collecting it as well, you will get 2 doses of spray instead of one.

Sounds to me more like Good Bad Bugs:

  • Button Game Series: Appeared in Button Game 1-4, by presing tab you could easily find hidden button. This was fixed later on.

Or, just, using strategy in general:

  • S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Mutants have a limited area they can move in. You can shoot from outside this area.

There are few wicks, though, so there isn't a very large sample size.

edited 11th Jun '13 2:30:47 PM by sunlitgarden

5 AnotherDuck11th Jun 2013 04:14:12 PM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
I'm not sure I see the difference from Good Bad Bugs.
Check out my fanfiction!
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
The trope page is MUCH weaker than the final draft for the ykttw. Not saying that the ykttw was a trope separate from Good Bad Bugs, but it's definitely well-written and explained. The current page is the result of some serious damage. Perhaps a previous TRS redefined this trope, or spun off a definition.
Good Bad Bugs are just "bugs that players liked". Fake Skill is "player advantages not intended by the developers, which may (but does not necessarily) include bugs". Definitely different tropes.
8 larkmarn11th Jun 2013 06:58:55 PM , Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Which makes it Not the Intended Use but with an awful name.

I say cut it.
9 sunlitgarden11th Jun 2013 07:03:00 PM , Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
[up][up] Hmm... If that's the case, maybe Good Bad Bugs should be split into "famous and/or funny" glitches (which seems to be what you're talking about) and "beneficial to the player" glitches. I can do a formal count if anyone would like, but just skimming several of the example categories in Good Bad Bugs, at least twice as many are "exploit/glitch that makes the game easier", not "funny glitch that players liked." (The use of these helpful glitches seems to be what Fake Skill is about... along with possibly just using combinations of attacks or strategies that the developers didn't intend, even if not necessarily a bug.)

edited 11th Jun '13 7:06:13 PM by sunlitgarden

Dragon Writer
Bugs with positive side effects are more likely to ascend to videogame legend.
11 sunlitgarden11th Jun 2013 09:12:17 PM , Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
I think Fake Skill, at the very least, needs a better description. And a lot of the examples overlap with Good Bad Bugs. I think there are currently at least three separate situations being described on Fake Skill. I mentioned them above, but here are a few more examples that will hopefully make it clearer:

Glitch/bug exploits:

  • Blaster Master had the grenade + pause bug that killed the bosses in the certain dungeons.
  • Exploiting the pause button glitch in Mega Man 1, which allowed you to deal damage multiple times with a single shot, especially with Elec Man's power.

Using legitimate spells or techniques, but in ways unforeseen by the developers (which, incidentally, is also why cards or combos end up getting banned in Collectible Card Games, or classes nerfed in tabletop games.) EDIT: larkmarn was right, this is Not the Intended Use)

  • In plenty of platform games, it's possible to gain two or more extra lives in a single level, commit suicide, restart the level, gain 2-3 more lives, commit suicide again... basically the platform equivalent of grinding/powerleveling.

  • In the Touhou games, several patterns have safe spots where you can sit without fear of getting hit. Safe spots that are generally barely larger than your hitbox and entirely unmarked.

Using strategies that, despite not initially being obvious to the player, are actually intended (or at least not discouraged) by the game/developer:

  • Leg Sweeps on SNK Boss targets that are vulnerable to them.
    • SNK even admits that their notorious "SNK Boss Syndrome" is designed to root out Fake Skill. Once you find the one trap a boss is susceptible to (it can be a lot of things, but they all have that one key to their downfall) they crumble, albeit anti-climatically.

  • One early test chamber in Portal has a way to bypass all of the puzzles in it and go directly to the exit. According to the Commentary Mode, this act of Sequence Breaking was only discovered during one of the later gameplay test passes, and that normally they would have adjusted the level to prevent it. However, they left it in because they had to admit that being able to figure out how to do it arguably requires a better understanding of portal techniques than that level was trying to teach. However, the advanced version of this chamber removed the shortcut, since they made changes to the rest of the chamber to make it harder.

I think the second type is what the trope description was intended to be, but with all three mixed in, it's harder to focus on that.

edited 11th Jun '13 9:54:01 PM by sunlitgarden

12 sunlitgarden11th Jun 2013 09:38:20 PM , Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
nevermind, I'm overcomplicating things.

edited 11th Jun '13 9:55:12 PM by sunlitgarden

13 larkmarn11th Jun 2013 09:39:25 PM , Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
[up][up]First is Good Bad Bugs. Second is Not the Intended Use. Third is the only one I can't think of a separate trope for.

And any way you cut it, what does the name Fake Skill have to do with anything? At best, it's non-descriptive. But realistically, it's confusing at best.

edited 11th Jun '13 9:39:59 PM by larkmarn

14 sunlitgarden11th Jun 2013 09:52:01 PM , Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Yeah, I really agree about the name. I think that my third example there is actually two different things... the boss example is Attack Its Weak Point or Fantastic Fragility, and the Portal one is just a shortcut or Sequence Breaking.

I think pretty much all the current examples can be moved to Good Bad Bugs, Not the Intended Use, or else Sequence Breaking or other pages, depending on the specific example. I'm confusing myself with all the other tropes and subtropes on the Error Index. I need to just focus on the reason I made this thread in the first place.
15 DonaldthePotholer11th Jun 2013 10:14:46 PM from Somewhere in (not)Miami
Sounds to me like Fake Skill is a Super Trope to Good Bad Bugs and Not the Intended Use.

The question of whether there are other categories, or examples that cannot be categorized, still stands.

EDIT: I do agree that the name doesn't add anything, though. Also that the examples can and should be moved where possible.

EDIT2: Not the Intended Use also has a poor description. Perhaps a Description Merge is in order with Good Bad Bugs being a Sub-Trope of the combined Trope.

edited 11th Jun '13 10:19:11 PM by DonaldthePotholer

I didn't even know Not the Intended Use was a trope. Given its existence, Fake Skill basically ends up being "Good Bad Bugs + Not the Intended Use", and as such I'd say cut it as a duplicate trope.
17 SeptimusHeap11th Jun 2013 11:56:32 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
I am seconding a cut as well.
18 Spark912th Jun 2013 01:51:14 AM from Castle Wulfenbach , Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Special trousers. Very heroic.
19 kiukiuclk12th Jun 2013 02:05:16 AM from 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693 , Relationship Status: My TiMER is ticking
How many votes do you need? But yeah, this seems like a pretty clear cut.

The name is also terrible.
20 AnotherDuck12th Jun 2013 02:08:11 AM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
I don't see a unique worth in this page.
Check out my fanfiction!
21 SeptimusHeap13th Jun 2013 11:45:15 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
Now that I see, this has 410 inbounds. Shall we redirect it somewhere?
22 Larkmarn13th Jun 2013 11:52:13 AM , Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Not the Intended Use, I'd imagine.
23 sunlitgarden14th Jun 2013 08:52:16 PM , Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
I copied all the relevant examples from Fake Skill over to Not the Intended Use and also added to the description at Not the Intended Use, though it can still use some improvement. It looks like all the "bug" examples on the Fake Skill page were already over at Good Bad Bugs.
24 SeptimusHeap23rd Jun 2013 04:50:13 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
Some more support for a redirect and we can go with that.
I support redirect. Do we need a crowner for this, or are we good?

Total posts: 29
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