I would put the reason for listing as "too broad". The trope definition is divided into 18 sections, two of which already have a page. One has a link to a related trope. Each section has a short description of various ways in how this trope is played out with each type having different uses of the trope. The description admits to the different types being used "depending on the story". Now to the examples. Examples from the 16 sections without their own pages are scattered all over the long list, making it unnecessary difficult to find related examples of the same type of this trope. Examples of President Personable, President Scheming, and President Target are located right next to each other, the only thing they have in common is that they are fictional presidents. Each type of fictional president should have their own page as they are tropeworthy. The main OPAD page should be made into an index or disambig.
Puʻu ʻŌʻōSeems we have a TypeLabels problem there as well in the wicks.
Gentleman Troper!Let me guess, this has turned into a "list of all presidents in fiction"?
Special trousers. Very heroic.
Puʻu ʻŌʻōMaybe, but that is not the problem here.
This shouldn't be called Our Presidents Are Different. It is not about how you portray presidents differently from how most works do. It's about every possible way that a work can portray the president. President Action and President Target seem like tropes. Most of these probably aren't should be lumped in with other politicians rather than given their own page for presidents. None should be allowed to be headings on a single "all possible president adjectives page"; the current page is terrible.
Puʻu ʻŌʻōAhem, wrong interpretation of the snowclone family. It's not strictly about "Our Xes are different", it's more about "How Xes are protrayed in fiction", since these names tend to attract better examples.
Yeah, thanks to unstoppable misuse. But we don't think "How Xes are portrayed in fiction" is a good premise for a page, right? Don't we organize examples by trope instead of by noun?
Puʻu ʻŌʻōNot because of misuse. Because that snowclone family gets less Zero Context Examples than other names. There is a precedent for a split, though: Our Zombies Are Different.
SF-81A Black KnightAs long as we're fiddling with this, can we broaden the definition to cover other elected officials such as mayors?
Puʻu ʻŌʻōEh, I do not think that's a good idea. Presidents have a lot of baggage associated with them (e.g launching a nuclear war, being always targets of assassinations etc.) that isn't really there with other officials.
Some of these are tropes associated with presidents - like President Target. Others work just as well with other politicians - like Playboy Politician. That's why we should make a page for each trope rather than make one for each noun and then just brainstorm potential tropes on the page.
edited 10th Jun '13 8:33:35 AM by AmyGdala
When I brought up the subject on Lost and Found, I was told that this trope could apply to senators as well, and just note that in the example.
Some of the types may apply to other elected officials while some would work only for presidents. A split would remedy these problems.
Ugh, I hate "Our X Is Different" being used for "Tropes about X." Just a pet peeve of mine. I'm shocked there's not a trope for "the president's been kidnapped." That's a classic.
Possibly President Target could be made into that.
edited 7th Aug '13 10:21:14 AM by MikuruFan
SF-81A Black KnightIt looks to me like Our Presidents Are Different is really a supertrope. I propose splitting it by section into different subtrope pages and leaving OPAD as an index. Another possibility would be to split the subtropes, kill the supertrope, and put everything under Authority Tropes.
I like the second idea.
Io vs JupiterAre the subtropes meaty enough to stand on their own, though, or are they just "[another trope], and also the President?"
edited 7th Aug '13 5:17:01 PM by NativeJovian
Yeah. I'm not sure if Trope, also the President is a trope. It's not like we have Trope, also a villain.
SF-81A Black Knight*whistles* Didn't realize it was that bad. We can probably cut a bunch of them (not sure which ones ATM), but I will say that Trope + Super-Powerful Chief of State (e.g. the president) would appear to have different implications than just Trope on its own.
I'm inclined to think most of those "trope, plus the president" marks are seriously abusing The Same but More Specific. It's safe to say that President Corrupt and President Scheming can go, though.
Yeah, they should be on President Evil.
Io vs JupiterWell, the question is whether saying "this character is President Badass" is any different from saying "this character is The President and also a Bad Ass". If the "president type" is more than the sum of two tropes, then it's probably worth keeping as a distinct trope. For example, Invisible President is probably legit, as while it's basically "He Who Must Not Be Seen + The President", the reasons for using it are different than He Who Must Not Be Seen, as are its effects on the story, so it stands on its own. Meanwhile, President Badass probably isn't a distinct trope, because the only real difference between "President Badass" and "Badass + The President" is already covered by Authority Equals Asskicking anyway.
President Target can probably become the standard "The president gets kidnapped" trope as stated above, and President Action and Preisdent Minority are probably also worth keeping in some form or another. The rest should be covered by other tropes, but I'd like to hear what other people think on the matter.
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