When Did Marvel start to surpass DC

As many of us already know, Dc comics and Marvel comics have both had their characters brought to via TV and/or movies. However, in recent days i've noticed that movies and TV shows based on Marvel comics have gotten more attention than the ones based on DC comics. Heck, even Disney, one of the best animation studios in history (if not the best) has decided to make Marvel apart of them, and that just bothers me.

Now don't get me wrong, i'm not saying i don't like Marvel, i find many of their stories compelling and realistic. But that's also a problem; it's too realistic, and i feel that the stories made by Marvel get a little too harsh on the characters (Spiderman being hassled for wanting to use his powers to do the right thing and never getting any breaks, Iron Man almost losing everything he cares about, Hank Pym being chewed out for being a pacifist, Hulk being treated like a monster even though he's relatively harmless unless provoked, and the mutants in the Marvel world being treated like outcasts even though they just want to be treated like normal people). I guess, nowadays, that's a problem because since Disney now owns Marvel, everything i loved about that company (movies, TV shows, etc.) will now be synonymous with the harsh, unrelenting and unforgiving world of Marvel comics.

There were times when i felt that DC was a little harsh on its characters too (Superman being made an outcast because of Darkseid, Batman's fallout with his teammates, Hawkgirl's current situation), but i guess i liked the fact that the DC superheroes were treated as heroes and were praised for the things they did, with only a small number of people actually speaking out against them (and those people didn't seem to bother me in the long run back then). These days, my only issue when i think about DC comics is that my overactive mind makes me think of these characters saying and doing things that fall into the old "PSA" way of portraying these heroes (them saying things that begin with "Remember Kids..." or end with "...and you children should remember that"), it's really embarrassing to think about and makes me uncomfortable.

Anyway, i ask again, when did Marvel start to surpass DC?

After all the low-quality animated fare we're experiencing from them on TV (that isn't in the form of direct-to-DVD movies, and even then...), I don't think Marvel is going to surpass DC anytime soon, unless it's theatrical fare we're talking about (which they have and still do, even if just IMHO....).

The thing is, while DC has better quality animation in general, Marvel has managed to expose more characters through TV. DC tends to either have Batman or Justice League shows, while Marvel has Spider-Man, X-Men, and Avengers shows. (Yes, DC had Superman TAS, GLTAS, and Static Shock, but I'm counting characters/teams that had more than one show focused on them).

So DC has better quality* in general (DCAU, GLTAS, YJ), while Marvel has more exposure.

• Please note that I'm talking about broad generalizations of all animated shows.

I think it's because of the quantity movies. Marvel has had more movies over the last decade than DC. They started in 2000 with X-Men, continued with Spiderman, Iron Man, The Avengers and so forth. Whereas DC has only had 3 superheroes with movies in the last decade (Batman, Superman and Green Lantern)and only one that's done well (so far, until the Superman movie comes out). DC has done better (in my opinion) with quality cartoons. And since more people usually see movies than watch cartoons, Marvel has gotten more attention.

I agree with this.

Marvel has been knocking it out of the park with movies(sure, it's had bad ones, but they still have more) while DC is where it's at with animation.

So hold on... It bothers you that Disney bought Marvel, because now you're going to associate Disney with the "harsh and unforgiving world of Marvel Comics"?

Unless I'm mistaken, it's usually DC that's painted the darker shade of grey. I mean sure, the X-Men universe contains a lot of racist subtext and Peter Parker keeps getting jerked around - but Gotham City is a hotbed of corruption and crime which only gets half a chance thanks to Batman and essentially all of Superman's kind are dead.

Though I suppose there's more than enough angst in the Marvel universe, what with The Hulk gaining Bruce Banner's brains and being exiled to space, Captain America being frozen in a block of ice for decades then being shot by an assassin and 99.99% of the world's mutants being depowered.

Getting back on track, I'm not quite sure when Marvel surpassed DC - comics-wise it was ages ago with a larger cast of recognizable faces and more fan favorites like Deadpool and debatedly Squirrel Girl, but I don't think they've really dominated the western animation department for... I'm not really sure, to be honest. All I'm certain of is while DC has had several Justice League cartoons, a slew of animated Batman adaptions and a The Flash series, Marvel's only really sustained itself on Spiderman and X-Men, with the Avengers stuff only really coming together recently. Even with my own personal favorite show The Super Hero Squad Show, Marvel hasn't put out much winning animation compared to DC.

Who really said Marvel surpassed DC? I know there are some fans who find marvel better because it's considered(keyword: considered) more edgy(whereas DC seems comparatively more idealistic with its iconic characters).

I agree with the assessment that Marvel has simply had more exposure over the years with its movies. This may sound a bit like "Comic Book Ghetto"(and I do dislike ghettoes), but much as I liked the Avengers it was a comic book movie; great colors, action, and dialogue, fun is what it mainly was. DC may have mainly had the TDK trilogy, but those movies asked some more gray questions. Now granted this may've been more the style of the director, but it certainly was a nice deconstruction(though not without its flaws).

JLA unlimited, Young Justice, those shows may have ended but I think they were still a culmination of other great DC shows.

I like both Marvel and DC, and some heroes and heroines you just can't not have.

DC is more black and white, while Marvel tends to go for varying shades of grey. I mean you have The Joker, pure evil insanity with nary a redeeming quality about him, and Magneto, a Well-Intentioned Extremist at best, fighting for a place in the world for the mutant populace with excessive force.

And I agree with exposure: Spider-Man was the first comicbook cartoon, The Incredible Hulk was the first live action comicbook show (That or the live-action Spider-Man show, I'm not sure - and even considering it's The Hulk, it's a very loose adaption) and though Superman was one of the first successful live-action comicbook movies, Spider-Man is considered to have begun this recent boon in superhero movies - which has so far only had Batman and the Green Lantern, not to mention the upcoming Superman reboot, representing DC.

edited 1st Jun '13 1:12:52 PM by MrMallard

You forget Batman. The Batman TV series predates the Hulk considerably.

Superman also had a series of shorts done by, i think, Paramount, which were actually groundbreaking animation for their time (in, maybe, the 1940s?), predating the Spiderman 'toon of the 60s.

Oh crap, you're right. My nan had some of those Superman shorts on VHS, in retrospect they were really good.

Marvel has had a much larger market-share in the comics department for years now. Their movies taking was icing on the cake.

The problem with DC is that they suffer from quarterback syndrome. Ever since the 90s, they've been overly reliant on the Batman franchise to do the heavy lifting for their company.

Animation-wise, I'd say that Marvel has YET to surpass DC. Marvel, in it's entire history, has yet to produce a truly great animated series (the 60's Spider-Man, while important, isn't really all that great outside of the rose-colored spectacles of nostalgia). DC has produced at least 3, with Batman TAS, Superman TAS and Justice League (imho, of course).

Movie-wise, a good movie that has been made from DC characters that aren't Superman or Batman has yet to be made. I wouldn't call any of Marvel's films "great" but several of them have been pretty darn good (Spider-Man II comes pretty close to being great though). DC, though, again in my opinion, has surpassed Marvel in that the Nolan Batman films are REALLY great.

Animation-wise, though, it's DC all the way.

I disagree, I think Spectacular Spiderman was great, but I do agree that other than that there isn't a lot of great there when it comes to animation.

Right now they are both on an even scale on animation, as neither of them has made a series that has more than 2 seasons since 2005.

MARVEL managed to get more attention from people through decades of competition. Then Disney bought them, and the competition disappeared.

DC makes the mistake of only sticking with their most famous characters, while MARVEL gives other ones a chance. Ant Man is getting a film!! Guardians is getting a film! DC? We never had a Wonder Woman movie, and the Green Lantern bombed!

edited 3rd Jun '13 12:00:03 PM by kyun

Marvel has had a lot to gain from being a relative underdog, actually. While they've outdone DC in comics sales since the 60's, they only recently got a set of deep pockets behind them comparable to Warner Bros'. As such, they made some unfavorable licensing decisions with their biggest franchises (Spider-Man and X-Men), forcing them to put more money and hype behind Iron Man and the Avengers when they made their own movie studio.

Honestly, if the Disney buyout had happened before Sony and Fox had their hands on Marvel's strongest properties, Marvel might be in a similar situation to DC right now with over-reliance on those two.

Did nobody watch the 90s Spider-man and X-men series? Even with the excessive censorship, they really did alot with the characters. Those shows got me into the characters in the first place. While the Batman TAS was awesome and it was, those shows were still fantastic.

Also their was a Captain Marvel serial in the 40s along with Batman, Captain America and the Phantom.

I did, and loved them. :)

and You're not alone - Both 90's Spidey and X-men, despite any of their faults, are (IMHO) staples of classic 90's Western animation - and I wouldn't be the same person I am today without either of them around to entertain me and brighten my day when necessary!

The X-Men's 90s series kept a steady level of quality to the end, but Spider-Man's took a nosedive when Spidey became downright incompetent. I don't mean it as a 'loser'. Spider-Man is often a 'loser' across the media, but more often than not it is a result of impossible bad luck and fearsome threats on his way. 90s Spidey, after a point, became just incompetent, only bested at it by Comics Strip Spider-Man. He got to a point where he couldn't get anything done without his guest stars, and otherwise he basically failed at achieving anything lasting on his own.

edited 5th Jun '13 11:00:06 AM by NapoleonDeCheese

Well, that explains some things, sadly... I still like the show, but yeah - that is sad to pick up on.

At one time, Marvel had their own animation division, which produced "Spiderman And His Amazing Friends" among others. This move came after the mixed success of contracting out to Gantray-Lawrence productions. DC Comics never bothered to establish an in-house studio, instead contenting themselves to license out characters to Hanna-Barbera Studios. Hanna-Barbera ended up as one of Ted Turner's properties, which was blended in with the Time-Warner + Turner merger. Thus, DC's licensing is handled currently by Warner Brothers Entertainment.

In response, the Walt Disney Company outright purchased Marvel Comics to muscle in on the superhero show trend that was working well for Warner Brothers. Reflexively, Time-Warner outright purchased DC Comics. Up to this point, the two publishing houses had been roughly equal, with all the rollercoaster fluctuations of a public medium. However, the Walt Disney Company has a huge stable of bankable characters, three theme parks operating in the black, and very deep pockets. Warner Brothers has fewer cash-cow characters, the Six Flags resorts in Chapter XI bankruptcy, and not-so deep pockets.

The Walt Disney Company is the Galactic Empire of global media, while Warner Brothers is the rebel Alliance. Unless WB can dig up an awesome Jedi somewhere, Disney will likely rule the media world.

Nah, WB's just as bad; they're like Westeros, with everyone competing to destroy each other.

In regards to animation, I'd also say that DC still holds dominance, at least until Marvel comes out with a series that can match up to Justice League Unlimited or Teen Titans.

In general, Marvel gained supremacy when the MCU proved to be a massive success. It helps that Marvel is willing to look at more obscure properties while DC can't even get a Wonder Woman movie to lift off the ground.

edited 7th Jun '13 10:33:13 AM by Watchtower