Young Avengers

Hmm kind of surprised there wasn't a thread for them already. I thought Allan Heinberg's run was amazing.

What does everyone think of the new volume? I'm not a fan at all (based on several factors), but I'm glad that a lot of people are liking it. The new lineup seems interesting to say the least. I'll probably pass on reading it.

You're wrong to pass on the new volume. It's amazing. Fun, clever, witty, with excellent characterization and plenty of drama. And the art's great, too, with some fantastic layouts. The first issue had a music video action scene. The new issue had a diagram of Noh-Varr kicking ass in a club, with a key showing his thoughts at each step. He paused to put on a record.

This comic is amazing.

Also, I think part of why there isn't a thread is because we've been talking about in the main Marvel thread.

Right; it is an Avengers title, and since we don't have an Avengers thread, we just talked about it in the Marvel thread. ...You know, that brings up an interesting point; why don't we have an Avengers thread? You'd figured a franchise as big and popular as Avengers would have it's own thread. If no-one else has issue with it, I'd have no problem with putting an Avengers thread up.

edited 27th Apr '13 8:15:34 AM by kkhohoho

I'd say the general Marvel thread is fine for discussing Avengers stuff. Frankly, I'd just as soon use that thread for pretty much all of Marvel's stuff. Except maybe the X-Men. They're awesome enough to deserve their own thread. The Avengers lack that level of awesome. Spider-Man's probably about that awesome, though.

...That, sir, is where I'm afraid we'll have to sorely disagree. X-Men is awesome, but (IMO,) only became so when Claremont got his hands on them in 1975. Avengers, on the other hand, became awesome once Roy Thomas entered the picture in the mid-late 60's. I'd also argue that there's different kinds of awesome. X-Men, at it's best, it largely about the characters, their personal lives, and what's happening to them as people while all of this crazy **** is going on. It's a very character-centric series. Avengers, on the other hand, isn't as character-focused, but if you read it over the years, there's still very satisfying character development and growth. But Avengers, at it's best, is a mix of character-centric stories, and plot-centric stories, with all sorts of fun and engrossing plots&situations that the Avengers have to deal with on a regular basis. When this is done right, 'Avengers' ends up being one of the most satisfying experiences in comics. (Such as Buseik's run, or Slott's, and of course, the man responsible for so much of what Avengers would become, Roy Thomas.) So, yeah, I'd say that Avengers is very awesome, just as much as the X-Men is in it's own way, and definitively deserves it's own thread. Which I might just now create anyway.

edited 27th Apr '13 11:19:38 AM by kkhohoho

I agree that it was Claremont who made the X-Men awesome. And, in fact, he made the X-Men the franchise at Marvel. Ever since 1975, the X-Men have been better than the Avengers. I don't think there's ever been a time when the Avengers franchise, as a whole, has been better than the X-Men franchise.

I'm liking the only direction if only because I felt near the end, Heinberg's run was getting a little stagnant. Kid Loki has been hysterial while Miss America was an unexpected treat and Prodigy looks like another interesting new addition.

I like the newer Young Avengers, but I feel it really pales in comparison to the master piece that was the original Young Avengers!

I plan to reserve judgment of Young Avengers at least until one or two story arcs is finished. We're only four issues in.

Prodigy will be in it! Yay! Of all Marvel's teen characters who've been reduced to wallpaper, he was arguably the wallpaperiest. And he may have his powers back, too; the solicit calls him a "mutant."

And yet another X-Man joins the ranks of the Avengers. (Sort of.) Seriously, I like both franchises a great deal, but if they keep mixing and matching members, then they might as well just fuse them into one gia-humongous franchise, the rate they're going.

I would be okay with that. It's time the X-Men joined the greater Marvel Universe, and time the rest of the Marvel Universe stopped pretending that mutants don't exist.

It's also time they reconciled the "controlling but ultimately well-meaning" government of the greater Marvel Universe with the "pure evil, murderous, genocidal devil" government of the X-Men franchise.

Of course, Prodigy was wallpaper even in issues dedicated to him. It'll be interesting to see if Gillen can make him interesting.

It's odd how seldom X-Men joined the Avengers, until recently. Even now, the list of X-Men who've served on the Avengers is Beast, Wolverine, Storm (for a single arc), and now Cannonball and Sunspot, and that's about it, not counting UA bringing in Havok, Rogue and Sunfire. And now we've got Prodigy joining the Young Avengers. Hell, prior to Bendis, the X-Men had as many former Avengers as members (Carol Danvers) as the Avengers had former X-Men.

Yeah, this direction will last a few years, but then the two will start to drift apart again.

I really don't get why Prodigy is the Slinger who's actually gotten to stick around. Hornet and Dusk were way, way more interesting.

Different Prodigy. The New X-Men Prodigy is joining YA. Slingers Prodigy has been relegated to obscurity again.

I liked the Bad Future arc where he became a President Evil, at least.

Which didn't actually happen - it was an illusion.

The best Prodigy story was a dream. That about sums him up, I think.

I'm kidding around. I never disliked Prodigy. I didn't find him particularly dull. But he's fun to make fun of.

So apparently there's been a bit of a controversy about this book, stemming from Loki implying that Billy was unconsciously making Teddy love him with his probability-altering powers. This, according to the critics, would be pretty much super-date rape. Any thoughts? I trust Gillen not to be tasteless, but given how abominably rape is typically handled in comics I suppose I can't blame people for being cautious.

edited 12th May '13 7:12:28 PM by HamburgerTime

Yeah. It would definitely be pretty questionable. Thing is, if Billy isn't aware he's actually doing it, can he really be held responsible? This isn't just ignorance of the law, it's ignorance of his own actions.

That's interesting. I had thought it was implying that Billy created Teddy entirely.

And it is Loki, the "lie-smith" and all that...

The implications are unclear, right now. Maybe Billy created Teddy completely. Maybe Teddy existed, and Billy made him love him. Maybe Loki was just lying.

I think we'll have to wait and see.

I must say I do trust Gillen to stay classy. From what I've read of him it'd take a complete 180 in his storytelling style to do something squickish.

Yeah, I'm a huge Gillen fan. Even if he does some squicky, he'll handle it well. I mean, he's not averse to throwing tragedy into his stories. Ji M was full of tragedy, even before that amazing ending. His UXM had its fair share of tragic moments, particularly the final confrontation between Colossus and Magik.

He knows what he's doing. And I think he's probably aware of the controversy surrounding Loki's comment, and I'm sure he's considering the feedback it's getting. I have faith in him to handle things well.

Like I said, though, I don't blame people for being cautious; you could probably count the number of tasteful mainstream comics about rape on one hand. Usually it's just used for the shock/gross-out factor that adds nothing to the story (Identity Crisis, which was apparently literally created because Didio walked into the office one day and said "Write something about rape") or brushed off as no big deal (Avengers 200, virtually anything where the perpetrator is an attractive female).