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Setting question: President Odin:

 1 Morwen Edhelwen, Sat, 20th Apr '13 2:38:26 AM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
I have a futuristic urban fantasy universe where for some reason the Norse gods have established a Mega Corp. (Asgard Corporation) headed by Odin, who's also the American President. I need a reason why:

A) the Norse gods would establish a Mega Corp. in this world

b) Odin would become a politician and openly assume a position of power in a country rather than manipulating politicians from behind the scenes, which is how he worked in the myths and sagas.

Plus, any likely consequences of a god as a political leader.
The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
I remember you making a topic about this story before. I think I have said before that you try to hard to include superficial elements of the original stories into you adaptations.

Is there any particular reason why the megacorp leaders have to be Norse gods other than the fact that the Norse gods were in the original story? Can't they just be some guys who became super rich and powerful?

Also, I can't really see Odin becoming the American president; like that's kind of silly. I'd imagine he'd make himself some kind of king with this megacorp being a state-owned enterprise. In a monarchy they can probably get away with the government taking control of a company.
 
 3 Eagal, Sat, 20th Apr '13 11:28:33 AM from This is a location. Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
This is a title.
Odin isn't a natural-born American citizen, he's ineligible for office. [lol]
The madness is catching.
 4 Editor Pall Mall, Sat, 20th Apr '13 1:49:05 PM from United States, East Coast
Don't Fear the Spiders
[up]In the future, perhaps we amended the US constitution? Or perhaps Odin is reincarnated.
Keep it breezy!
It would be easier to make him, like, president or prime minister of norway or something. in germany he'd go by the name wotan instead of odin, though.
Winter is coming.
 6 Morwen Edhelwen, Sat, 20th Apr '13 3:59:44 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
@WSM: It's urban fantasy. So yeah, they have to be there. And plus, in the original version Odin is just the guy behind the scenes.

This isn't a superficial element. The story is bound up with the Aesir and their manipulations- it's an epic, so not having Odin there IMO cheapens it. Plus, some of the themes depend on having the gods there. I'm planning to explore the themes of fate (etc what happens when it seems like your fate is all mapped out for you, and knowing someone is manipulating your life. )

In my version of Kullervo's story, for example, Ilmarinen's wife was pregnant before Kullervo came along- he was a baby when he arrived at the farm. She lost the child, and had a breakdown. Kullervo's presence reminds her of the lost child, and she ill-treats him because she can't bear to be reminded of what she lost.

edited 20th Apr '13 4:53:53 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
Just because you draw from a well doesn't mean you have to use every drop of water in the bucketwaii. I may write about a kappa but I feel free to adapt it to MY needs; you have the same right as a writer, don't you? Also, I'd suggest you do research for yourself before starting a project, because most of your questions can be answered pretty easily. I only ask for help from fellow tropers when I CAN'T find the answer for myself.
Winter is coming.
 8 Morwen Edhelwen, Sat, 20th Apr '13 5:59:58 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
@nekomoon: Please don't take this the wrong way, but I do do research. I've read the sagas and Eddas, if that's what you're referring to. And the story deviates from the original in a number of points:

Regin doesn't attempt to kill Sigurd, having grown too attached to him. Sigurd recovers his memory and returns to Brynhild. He's always had a vague sense that something wasn't right when he suddenly fell in love with Gudrun. The number of deaths is reduced. Although, he'll probably never really trust Regin again, given that Regin revealed his original intentions.

Odin is different in significant ways from his Norse counterpart. For one thing, he's more trustworthy, along the lines of Gandalf. Although the Valkyries are still omens of battle, their role is along the lines of a Distaff Counterpart of the Einherjar. He's still not above killing if he thinks he can achieve his aims, though.

edited 20th Apr '13 6:40:27 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
[up]Umm...I can't see any of that you wrote up there.

And no I'm not talking about researching the mythology, you've clearly done that. You ask why Odin would become pres, and the answer is that YOU'RE supposed to tell US why he'd become president; if you don't know, how would anyone else know? I'm really trying to say use your imagination to fill in those blanks, because your story can only be told by you.
Winter is coming.
 10 Morwen Edhelwen, Sat, 20th Apr '13 6:54:38 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
@nekomoon: Removed the spoiler tags. I get that.
The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
You have an awesome premise to work with, just leave some of the mythology behind. Hell, make Odin a CHICK, lol, because it's just one more way you OWN the character you're writing about. Give yourself the freedom to explore.

It's not as if someone is holding you to the original presentation - those stories have already BEEN told, only yours hasn't, right? So tell us why you think Odin would give a rat's butt about America; why he would settle for president rather than god-king; why he left norway or wherever the heck he's from.grin
Winter is coming.
 12 Morwen Edhelwen, Sat, 20th Apr '13 8:28:40 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
[up] I think technically he's from Asgard...
The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
But there doesn't have to be an Asgard in your story. I think the problem is that you try to hard to write the myth instead of writing your own story based on the myth. Why do you need THE Odin in your story other than "because he was in the original myth"? Why can't you just make a new character based on Odin?
 
 14 Morwen Edhelwen, Sat, 20th Apr '13 9:45:48 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
@WSM: Why do I need Odin? Because the continent of the other world that forms a large part of the backstory is mostly based on Norse mythology. The Nine Worlds all have different names and different countries/kingdoms within them in different languages, as well as different gateways (Yggdrasil in Middle-earth/Midgard) and a good part of the plot involves Odin using Sigurd (in a way) to defend "his" World Tree from Evil Overlords.

edited 20th Apr '13 10:46:12 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
I don't think you get what I'm trying to say; I'm just trying to give you some general advice. I feel like you give yourself really rigid guidelines in the interest of staying true to superficial aspects of the myths instead of just trying to write a good story using the myths as source material.

I also thought you wanted your story to be based on a Norse myth, I didn't realize that your story takes place in the same universe as Norse mythology.
 
 16 Morwen Edhelwen, Sun, 21st Apr '13 3:16:05 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
@WSM: You know, I have noticed something like that in my writing. I make big changes, but keep everything else. So any specific advice? I don't want to strip it completely of its roots, but at the same time I don't want to focus too much on the superficial details.

edited 21st Apr '13 3:46:02 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
The changes you made are not that big at all, actually. You're being EXTREMELY faithful to the source material. I think you love the mythology so much that it pains you to change it too much, which means you should probably refrain from writing stories based on those tales because they won't be significantly different the way you're currently going about it.

Artemis was a shadow fairy of the moon court in one of my old stories. I did away with her healing associations and with her "eternally chaste" thing because my fairies are sluts. Apollo became the sun king Helio's sheriff (I stole that title from True Blood), a fire fairy; he could not possibly be Artemis's sibling because they have different sires. See, I used the old stories as inspiRATION not as a ruler I'm trying to measure up to, which is what you're doing.

It kinda pains me that I can't really offer much more advice to a fellow writer, because I want to help but I don't know how to.

edited 21st Apr '13 3:53:35 PM by nekomoon14

Winter is coming.
 18 Morwen Edhelwen, Sun, 21st Apr '13 3:53:20 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
@nekomoon: The thing is that I still really want to write it, so what should I do? I want to radically change it. Hey, what about if the foster father and the dragon were the same person?

Yeah, but you know how Valkyries in the original myths had to stay virgins or else they couldn't be Valkyries? Not here.

edited 21st Apr '13 4:17:35 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
I'm not saying you should NECESSARILY change things if you don't want to. I'm really big on writers being true to what they want to produce (even in spite of things like Unfortunate Implications), and if you decide to include or exclude a detail, I want you to make that decision for the sake of YOUR story. So, if the only thing you change is that the valkyries (isn't it valkyrior, btw?) aren't required to be virginal, well great! just realize that nobody is holding you to any kind of "standard".

Phew[lol] I actually said everything I NEED to say for once, heh
Winter is coming.
 20 Morwen Edhelwen, Sun, 21st Apr '13 4:23:24 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
But that's not the only change... as I said above, I'm now considering making Regin and Svafnir (the dragon) the same person. And I think that's a good thing. I just needed a push, so thanks. Also, the Aesir and Vanir aren't gods, but elves. They have their own gods/a form of ancestor worship.

It's valkyrja/Valkyrior in Old Icelandic/Norse.

edited 21st Apr '13 4:39:05 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
 21 Madrugada, Sun, 21st Apr '13 4:42:42 PM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
If you want to use the original stories as inspiration rather than as a formula you're trying to follow as faithfully as possible, take the originals and pare them down to their very basics.

I mean the kind of plot synopsis you'd see in a tv guide; the kind that reduces ''The Wizard of Oz" to "a young girl is transported to a magical land where she meets three companions who help her try to get back to her home."

Then, add back in details that you need, and only those details. "A young girl is transported to a magical land. On her way to find the one person who may be able to help her get home, she meets three companions, none of whom are normal people, who help her. The person who can send her home tells her that she must destroy another powerful person before he can/will help her."

Then work from that, not the original story.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
 22 Morwen Edhelwen, Sun, 21st Apr '13 5:29:46 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
@Madru:

A young boy is goaded into killing a dragon by his dwarven foster father and kills it with the help of a mysterious man, then meets a beautiful girl sleeping in a castle surrounded by flames

edited 21st Apr '13 5:34:18 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
 23 montmorencey, Sun, 21st Apr '13 5:32:12 PM from the quaint town of Grimm, Bismarck and Gauss
So...yeah.
A castle surrounded by flames is hardly a central plot element, even though you could employ it in some sort of metaphorical way.

Try stripping it to the next level of abstraction.
Complicated - because simple is simply too simple.
 24 Morwen Edhelwen, Sun, 21st Apr '13 5:38:19 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
@mont: Sleeping in a dangerous and highly protected area.

This is for the other one:

A young boy with supernatural strength is sold away into slavery/to a foster family by his uncle. He tries out a number of tasks and takes care of the animals. His foster mother bakes a stone in his bread and he breaks a valuable knife, leading him to kill her in revenge.

edited 21st Apr '13 5:45:52 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
 25 montmorencey, Sun, 21st Apr '13 5:42:48 PM from the quaint town of Grimm, Bismarck and Gauss
So...yeah.
That sounds better. I don't know the original myth, so I don't know how any of this is connected and I can only give general advice.

Now try to think up the ways in which the original story might work as a metaphor.

For example. What does a God stand for? What does a Dragon signify? What are the characteristics of the dwarf people? Etc.

Also, try to identify the central themes/ conflicts in the original story.
Complicated - because simple is simply too simple.
Total posts: 52
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