Needs Help (new crowner 9/23/13): America Wins The War

Total posts: [128]
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I was only trying to explain Septimus' position, and I don't get that sense from anything he's said.
77 Theogrin15th Jun 2013 10:48:13 PM from The Blue Tower
The Eccentric
I'm sorry to randomly come in and post, but it seems to me that the trope in question isn't quite right. Nationalism is all over the place, even in the most unlikely places, and while the US is certainly guilty of a lot of it, it's hardly the only country in question. Canada, Britain, France, et cetera are all guilty of thinking that they're the ones who turned the tables in WWII [And hello there, Canada, my country of origin, I see we'll never speak again]. Every one of them is guilty of producing films, stories, and other works which render them as the unlikely heroes, because that's good PR.

I think the trope should be expanded to any situation where a country's PR agents claim that they were the deciding force behind a victory. Yes, this still gives us a LOT of films where the US lionizes itself, but it doesn't cut off examples of other politicized fodder from nigh every other nation.
A liter of coffee no longer sends me into palpatations. I need to up my intake.
78 Rethkir16th Jun 2013 08:47:44 AM from the gap between dimensions
I changed the option that I added to include a rename. That's what I intended.

Possible name: We Won WWII

[down] Sorry.

edited 16th Jun '13 9:11:15 AM by Rethkir

Image Source. Please update whenever an image is changed.
79 SeptimusHeap16th Jun 2013 08:48:36 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
After it got 6 votes? Please don't do that.
80 Spark916th Jun 2013 03:04:35 PM from Castle Wulfenbach , Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
But you could add a new option, and downvote the older options.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
81 TrevMUN18th Jun 2013 07:55:03 PM , Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
Internet Wanderer
If it's bad practice to edit crowner options and the only thing we can do is add new options and downvote old ones, then I say we just start over with a new crowner entirely.

The reason I say is because most of the people who came here and voted on the crowner at earlier points in time are likely not going to come back and vote again when presented with options added to the crowner later. Those earlier voters also made that decision lacking what I would consider pretty critical information. Heck, tropers coming in and voting on this probably didn't stop to notice what I pointed out on the last page ...

Just adding new options into an existing crowner that's had time to stew puts newer or replacement voting options at a disadvantage, because more people have voted on the older options than the newer ones. It makes it kind of lopsided.
82 SeptimusHeap18th Jun 2013 10:46:16 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
As a matter of fact, sometimes newly added options do win. Also, it kind of bothers me that the votes to keep it restricted are viewed as something that can be just tossed away.
83 Shaoken19th Jun 2013 12:44:04 AM , Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
To jump in late, I don't see how the current winning option is different enough from America Saves the Day to justify keeping it a seperate trope. We already have several tropes that cover politically correct or white-washed depictions of World War II, and we have a Useful Notes section that already cover that angle nicely.

It'd make more sense to make this a broader trope.
84 SeptimusHeap20th Jun 2013 05:38:13 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
We already have several tropes that cover politically correct or white-washed depictions of World War II, and we have a Useful Notes section that already cover that angle nicely.

Which ones?
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Due to popular interest, I created super trope options. It should be a fairly trivial matter for us to toss the misuse into a ykttw while doing the cleanup after a rename, and we should have enough examples to launch when it's clean.

Currently, the only positive is to rename to clarify option, at 15:7.
86 SeptimusHeap29th Jun 2013 02:58:16 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
That crowner option is badly written. What is its relationship with the current top option.
87 Spark929th Jun 2013 03:03:10 AM from Castle Wulfenbach , Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
It doesn't need to be there. We're talking about what to do with this trope; if you want to launch another trope just open a YKTTW for it.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
88 SeptimusHeap29th Jun 2013 03:09:40 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
Downvoted that option, thusly.
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
@86- I wrote the two options in a way that would not be incompatible with the current top option. "Possibly rename" means that the option does not determine whether or not the trope is renamed. It is open to the possibility of rename, but not dictating a rename. The options describe a relationship to the trope rather than an action to the trope.

@87- I agree, the options are not necessary. I think that if a troper sees Missing Supertrope Syndrome, they should grab the misuse from the page and make a ykttw. If you notice, I made that argument on the previous page. The response while I was away indicated to me that a few tropers think it must be determined here in TRS. Thank you for agreeing with me. In a few days there should be clear action that makes everyone here happy, not just the posters in favour of a rename.
Then force them to convince you of it, don't add an option you yourself think is redundant because of "popular interest", especially if you were away and thus unable to restate your argument at the time.
91 SeptimusHeap7th Jul 2013 01:56:33 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
Bumping for votes. Who's up for creating the YKTTW requested by the second crowner option?
Whatever happens, I just hope you can find some way to preserve Yahtzee's dissection outside of a Quotes page.

I'm for "Saves the day", but with the image of "Wins The War". Kind of like a hybrid trope instead of DESTROYING ONE TROPE FOR THE SAKE OF ANOTHER.
93 MarqFJA18th Jul 2013 05:55:14 AM from Saudi Arabia , Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
One vision, one purpose
FWIW, regarding North Korean propaganda... Ever since the armistice that put the Korean War on hold (it technically never ended), the NK government had denied all claims and evidence that China or the USSR ever had any role in the war (even in indirect ways like smuggling supplies), instead claiming that it was all the work of the KPA alone — when the facts make it clear that it was the PRC's supposedly "all-volunteer" intervention force that prevented North Korea from becoming, as UsefulNotes.The Korean War's Blatant Lies entry puts it, "a historical footnote".

And BTW, I'm seeing a glitch in the crowner system: When I change votes, the display still shows that I've voted the first way (downvote) — but when I click on the upvote button, it says that I've already upvoted that option. The vote result reflects my upvoting, incidentally. Weird.

edited 18th Jul '13 5:57:10 AM by MarqFJA

Where there is Distress, therein lies a Story. Where there is a Story, therein lies a Will. Where there is a Will, therein lies a Soul.
94 SeptimusHeap18th Jul 2013 06:09:45 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
That glitch's been around since some time now.

Also, repeating the YKTTW question above.
95 MacronNotes15th Aug 2013 11:21:13 PM from Pennsylvania , Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
Butterfly Queen
Bump for votes.
96 SantosLHalper17th Aug 2013 07:10:25 PM from The Canterlot of the North
Gentlecolt and Bard
"They may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR INALIENABLE RIGHTS TO LIFE, LIBERTY, AND PROPERTY!"
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
13 (yeas:22 nays:9) 2.44 : 1
—> Rename this trope to clarify that it's about America winning WWII.

9 (yeas:12 nays:3) 4.00 : 1
—> Create super trope for all countries and all wars. \\

edited 19th Aug '13 7:37:26 AM by crazysamaritan

98 Willbyr19th Aug 2013 09:42:43 AM from North Little Rock, AR , Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Calling for the options in the green.
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
So.... We need name suggestions for "America overstates their role in winning world war II, while downplaying the contributions of other countries."
"America Won WWII"? I want something simple and clear.

edited 25th Aug '13 3:47:47 PM by nemui10pm

Alternative Titles: America Wins The War
23rd Sep '13 7:21:24 AM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.
At issue:

Total posts: 128
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