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On Mature Childrens Work

First, We DID discuss themes that could be added to the description like whether or not a Very Special Episode counts, whether sexualization and (some) sexual content should be included. Parental abandonment, etc. It never went anywhere though. Some of it was agreed to not be added. Otherwise it was either forgotten, and we never came to an agreement with the sponsor on whether it would count or not. Or something was agreed to but never added to the description/examples. The description ended up discussing mostly various levels of Nightmare Fuel and very little else, even though some things were suggested.

Second, it's been pointed out by a few people that the description is bad because half of it Uses Examples To Describe The Trope, Instead of using plain language to say how and when certain examples fit into it. Which doesn't really work for this kind of page. Or at best leans it toward being YMMV.

I have to agree that unfortunately that Mature Childrens Work is struggling, and not going anywhere. I think we could make it Up for Grabs and/or see if maybe it could be salvaged if it had Rolling Updates. But I'd agree with abandoning it if we decide to do that.

edited 12th Jul '13 6:40:58 AM by xanderiskander

 
 152 Captain Peregrin, Fri, 12th Jul '13 11:37:23 AM from A Democratic Kingdom Far, Far Away
The Cat with the Timey-Wimey Ball
[up][up][up] I guess I'm not sure what the original intent was, but in practice, it seems to me that Family-Unfriendly Violence is used for unusual violence in kids shows and Getting Crap Past the Radar for any other content considered inappropriate for children, hence why I think the "adult content in a kids show" angle shouldn't be the main focus. At any rate, most examples of Getting Crap Past the Radar seem to assume that every kids show has a "radar" which fails to notice these things.
But I am a cat, and no cat anywhere ever gave anyone a straight answer
 153 shoboni, Fri, 12th Jul '13 2:39:20 PM from Iowa, USA
I never said it should be.
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 154 Rynnec, Sun, 11th Aug '13 11:24:13 PM Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
Ronin
Okay, I just saw this TRS and I'm a bit confused.

First off, I always thought this trope was the opposite of What Do You Mean, It's Not for Kids?, as in, used for works with enough "adult" content that it seems like it's for adults, but its target demographic skews towards the young (i.e Justice League, The Hunger Games, Attack on Titan and such), but it's actually apparently a subtrope of Fandom Berserk Button.

So to catch me (and everyone else who just noticed this) up to speed; what exactly is being done here?

edited 11th Aug '13 11:25:10 PM by Rynnec

"I'll show you fear, there is no hell, only darkness."

My twitter
 155 Septimus Heap, Sun, 11th Aug '13 11:27:51 PM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
This trope is not the opposite of What Do You Mean, It's Not for Kids?. And its name sucks. That is why we are scrapping this and sending examples to already-existing Audience Reactions.

 156 Rynnec, Mon, 12th Aug '13 2:15:47 PM Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
Ronin
I disagree about its name sucking, but I do have to wonder if it was never the opposite of that trope in the first place, why was it named as if it were?
"I'll show you fear, there is no hell, only darkness."

My twitter
 157 Spark 9, Mon, 12th Aug '13 2:18:17 PM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
[up] Because Everythings Worse With Snow Clones.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
 158 Rynnec, Mon, 12th Aug '13 3:44:58 PM Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
Ronin
Okay, what are we going to rename this trope? If so, what will become of the examples? Because honestly, I think the idea of having a trope that's the opposite of What Do You Mean, It's Not for Kids? is good, and changing it now would just confuse browsers of the site. Whatever this trope's intended purpose was can be in a new trope with a much better and more fitting name.
"I'll show you fear, there is no hell, only darkness."

My twitter
 159 Septimus Heap, Tue, 13th Aug '13 12:35:42 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
This trope is not the opposite of What Do You Mean, It's Not for Kids?. I said so already earlier on.

No, we were going to disambiguate this one. I might support a rename, considering that the current definition seems to be pageworthy (and probably exists in wicks as well).

[up][up]As was already said earlier in this discussion, all the "What do you mean, it's (not) X?" tropes are badly named because they're ambiguous (regardless of whether they have "not" in the title, they can be interpreted as "yes, this is X" or "no, this is not X"). Hence, they are ripe for abuse. (A case in point is "What do you mean, it's not symbolic?", which was frequently abused as "this work is full of symbolism" when it was supposed to be "this work is full of fake symbolism". It got renamed to Faux Symbolism because of this confusion).

Rename (or otherwise get rid of) the lot of them, I say.

Incidentally, I was under the impression that The Hunger Games was a teenage/young-adult series, like His Dark Materials or the later Harry Potter books.

edited 16th Aug '13 9:06:18 PM by Trueman001

I can't believe we've spent months over this thread. Let's just take all the current examples and put them in the Mature Childrens Work YKTTW to sink or swim. Then let's torch this page and move on the remaining What Do You Mean Its Not Butter pages.

edited 16th Aug '13 9:39:55 PM by AmyGdala

 162 Septimus Heap, Sat, 17th Aug '13 1:37:22 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
OK, I think we can go ahead with a disambiguation here. What tropes go into that?

Also, re: the YKTTW, we can just toss the examples that should have gone to the YKTTW into What Do You Mean, It's Not for Kids?.

 163 shoboni, Sat, 17th Aug '13 2:27:49 PM from Iowa, USA
I've just been waiting for work on the trope to resume...
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 164 Willbyr, Tue, 17th Sep '13 12:40:37 PM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
With Mod Hat On
Clock is set.
 165 shoboni, Wed, 18th Sep '13 6:13:47 PM from Iowa, USA
So, what are we doing in here?
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
If Mature Childrens Work is floundering, that's no reason to let What Do You Mean, It's for Kids? be. In fact, it's a reason to get rid of What Do You Mean, It's for Kids? - even in the stable world of YKTTW, we can't get a proper definition and examples.

So let's put all of What Do You Mean, It's for Kids?'s content as a reply on Mature Childrens Work and axe the page. If Mature Childrens Work launches, great, if it doesn't, that's fine too, but we need to remove What Do You Mean, It's for Kids?.

 167 shoboni, Thu, 19th Sep '13 10:12:19 AM from Iowa, USA
[up]Sounds good to me, at least it's getting something done.
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 168 Septimus Heap, Thu, 19th Sep '13 10:33:15 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
I think we ought to go for that. Also, we shall replace the current page with a disambig.

I added it, including all subpages. Turned out to be too big for a comment, so I added it to the main body.

 170 Septimus Heap, Sat, 21st Sep '13 1:59:32 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
You are talking about the YKTTW? You should not have dumped everything from the current pages into the YKTTW.

(Separated from the actual example list, with a note telling people to mine it for valid examples.)

 172 shoboni, Sat, 21st Sep '13 9:58:22 AM from Iowa, USA
Yes, but that still gives us a wall of examples to go through and sets back launching the trope. They should have been saved in a sandbox or something if they didn't fit in the comments.

edited 21st Sep '13 9:59:25 AM by shoboni

"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
We had had to go through all those examples for months, but we hadn't, presumably because they were elsewhere. But sure, move it to a sandbox or any other place you think would work.

 174 Willbyr, Mon, 21st Oct '13 6:28:21 AM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
With Mod Hat On
Clock is set.

edited 21st Oct '13 6:28:40 AM by Willbyr

 175 dasuberkaiser, Tue, 22nd Oct '13 11:42:15 AM from Nowheresville, Middle Nowhereistan
A professional at being ignored.

Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.

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