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 126 shoboni, Thu, 9th May '13 7:50:53 PM from Iowa, USA
Our trope is kinda like a super-trope to it, in that way. It's when there's so much of it going on you start to question if it really should be a kids show.

edited 9th May '13 7:51:13 PM by shoboni

"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 127 shoboni, Sun, 19th May '13 3:15:23 PM from Iowa, USA
bump
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 128 Septimus Heap, Sun, 19th May '13 3:16:36 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Far as I can tell, examples for the YKTTW are the only thing missing now.

 129 shoboni, Sun, 19th May '13 6:41:01 PM from Iowa, USA
Someone should weed out the examples that might belong here from the first trope.
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 130 Spark 9, Mon, 20th May '13 2:34:05 AM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Please remind us what was decided here again? YKTTW a new trope or two, move the examples onto there, and redirect this page; is that broadly correct?
Special trousers. Very heroic.
 131 Septimus Heap, Mon, 20th May '13 2:35:57 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Yes, but disambiguate the page.

 132 Septimus Heap, Thu, 13th Jun '13 2:45:01 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
OK, one shameless post a) in order to call people to the YKTTW and b) to ask for permission to remove examples that don't fit this page - asking for permission, since there will probably be a lot of removals.

 133 StarSword, Mon, 24th Jun '13 3:59:58 PM from somewhere in deep space Relationship Status: In denial
SF-81A Black Knight
Agree with removals.
 134 shoboni, Tue, 9th Jul '13 8:31:09 PM from Iowa, USA
bumping this to call more attention.
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 135 Noaqiyeum, Tue, 9th Jul '13 10:18:11 PM from across the gulf of space Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
nobody knows
Attention to what?
"I'm an odd person that likes to write odd people." - JHM
 136 Septimus Heap, Wed, 10th Jul '13 12:40:04 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
To this topic and the YKTTW. Work doesn't resolve by itself, after all.

 137 Noaqiyeum, Wed, 10th Jul '13 6:29:09 AM from across the gulf of space Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
nobody knows
I was wondering what work I can help with. The YKTTW, I guess?
"I'm an odd person that likes to write odd people." - JHM
Yeah, I'm real late to this discussion, but consider these: Is this suggestion too snowclonish? Or is it too The Same but More Specific to be a subtrope of Fandom Berserk Button?

 139 shoboni, Wed, 10th Jul '13 10:32:35 AM from Iowa, USA
[up][up]Just help us gather examples and give input.
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 140 Captain Peregrin, Wed, 10th Jul '13 12:46:11 PM from A Democratic Kingdom Far, Far Away
The Cat with the Timey-Wimey Ball
I hate to say this, but the YKTTW doesn't seem to be going anywhere. It's been up for three months now, and has a grand total of five examples (and it doesn't even include all the examples from the description). It's mainly people arguing about how to define it, because the description doesn't do much besides outlining what might qualify. The way it is now, it just looks like Getting Lots of Crap Past the Radar.

We need to settle on a definition, or else this will never get done. Is it supposed to be about shows with tons of "adult content", or is it supposed to be about shows that actually address or acknowledge adult themes? Or both? Personally, I think the "adult content" issue should already be covered by Getting Crap Past the Radar, Family-Unfriendly Violence, and possibly Values Dissonance.
But I am a cat, and no cat anywhere ever gave anyone a straight answer
Perhaps defining "mature themes" is the roadblock. Other than reproduction and death, what themes are generally considered too "mature" in a work intentionally marketed to single-digit-year-old children? The current laconic of the YKTTW involves "subject matter considered more suitable for teens/adults" without precisely defining that.

 142 StarSword, Wed, 10th Jul '13 7:55:19 PM from somewhere in deep space Relationship Status: In denial
SF-81A Black Knight
[up]I did ask for input on the laconic after I wrote it...
 143 shoboni, Wed, 10th Jul '13 8:51:17 PM from Iowa, USA
When I wrote the trope, I saw it as "if I told you about the content without naming the show it's from, would you be shocked it was from a kids show?"

[up][up][up]Were talking blatant here, like Courage the Cowardly Dog. It's a work that wallows in those things. On the adult content side were talking s show where it's blatant and gruesome for a kids work(again, see Courage, I still cannot fathom how that show got away with some of what it did, there was one about saving a girls friend from a abusive lover/pimp, I shit you not.).

edited 10th Jul '13 8:58:44 PM by shoboni

"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 144 Septimus Heap, Thu, 11th Jul '13 12:57:07 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Personally, I would say the trope needs to refer to content in works, not the works themselves.

 145 shoboni, Thu, 11th Jul '13 10:03:53 AM from Iowa, USA
Same difference. List a work and the offending content.
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 146 Captain Peregrin, Thu, 11th Jul '13 8:34:52 PM from A Democratic Kingdom Far, Far Away
The Cat with the Timey-Wimey Ball
[up][up][up] Doesn't that already fit in under Getting Crap Past the Radar or Family-Unfriendly Violence? There's a lot of that, sure, but do we really need a whole page for that, and is that what we want this trope to be? When I see Mature Childrens Work, I think of childrens' stories which handle tough subjects, well, maturely. Your idea seems to be a YMMV for kids shows which a troper personally thinks is "too dark for kids". Different people have different definitions of "dark" and how dark is too dark for kids.

I propose that the focus be on themes, topics, and ideas, not violence or fanservice or whatever, since we already have tropes for that. Of course it's hard to separate the ideas from the content at times, but we should at least try to emphasize it to make this trope distinct.
But I am a cat, and no cat anywhere ever gave anyone a straight answer
If we end up abandoning Mature Childrens Work, that's okay. The important thing is that we eliminate What Do You Mean, It's for Kids?.

 148 shoboni, Fri, 12th Jul '13 4:37:06 AM from Iowa, USA
[up][up] I asked countless times what other themes should be included and no one spoke up, so don't look at me. And we kinda out, so...

edited 12th Jul '13 4:37:41 AM by shoboni

"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 149 Septimus Heap, Fri, 12th Jul '13 5:12:07 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
@147: You know, I am really tempted to agree...

@146: Getting Crap Past the Radar is "this was brought past the censors" and Family-Unfriendly Violence is only about violence. Not seeing any "this is covered by" there unless you really twist the descriptions.

 150 shoboni, Fri, 12th Jul '13 6:04:58 AM from Iowa, USA
Exactly, this trope is more about having the mature themes, it doesn't have to be explicit, it just has to be there. Remember, mature and adult ain't alway's the same thing.
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
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