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 1 Spark 9, Fri, 12th Apr '13 5:38:37 AM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
In a recent discussion in Image Pickin', it became clear that the trope What Do You Mean, It's for Kids? is misused very often for What Do You Mean, It's Not for Kids?. The vast majority of examples on the former page are incorrect, and belong on the latter. Indeed, the page image on the former is incorrect (it's an example of the latter, and that's why it's on IP) and several tropers in the IP thread took some time before catching the difference.

The trope What Do You Mean, It's Not for Kids? is people mistaking a show that has adult content for a children's show; good examples include the movie Watership Down and any adult-oriented comic book. That one is pretty clear, actually.

What Do You Mean, It's for Kids? sounds like its opposite, but it's not. There is a trope for when adults enjoy a children's show, and that trope is Periphery Demographic. The most common examples are Lego and the Brony movement. This page here is actually an Audience Reaction: "adult fans of a kids show are offended when it's called a kids show"; it's essentially a subtrope of Fandom Berserk Button.

So something needs to be done here. At the least, most of the examples from It's For Kids should be moved to It's Not For Kids. But given how confusing the two names are, I think a good case could be made for renaming this trope. Alternatively, I'm not convinced that this is meaningfully different from Fandom Berserk Button, so a merge would avert future issues. Thoughts please?

edited 12th Apr '13 5:46:15 AM by Spark9

Special trousers. Very heroic.
 2 Septimus Heap, Fri, 12th Apr '13 5:47:45 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
It has 700-800 wicks. I would support a rename on the basis that it's been a problem for a long time.

TRS, old discussion and new discussion.

 3 Madrugada, Fri, 12th Apr '13 6:21:55 AM Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
I personally hate all of the "What do you mean, it's..." names, and would like to see them all fired into the heart of a black hole. They have been confusing from the very beginning, because even punctuated, most of them can be read at least two different (and usually contradictory) ways.

So I'm all for a rename.
'He strutted across the bedroom, his hard manhood pointing the way' sounds like he owns a badly named seeing-eye dog. 'Sit, Hard Manhood!
Dragon Writer
Yeah, I can totally see how What Do You Mean, It's for Kids? (i.e. shocked that someone else thinks it is a kids' show when you know better) would get confused for What Do You Mean, It's Not for Kids? (i.e. thinking that something is a kids' show and being shocked to learn that it's really not).
I'd say this may be a place for splitting and creating a new trope for the "kids show that seems like it shouldn't be a kids show" misuse.
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 6 Editor Pall Mall, Fri, 12th Apr '13 10:12:13 AM from United States, East Coast
Don't Fear the Spiders
I support renaming the trope. It is too easy to mistake it for its counter part. I will even help fixing the wicks afterword. We need to decide on a good name, though.
Keep it breezy!
 7 Septimus Heap, Fri, 12th Apr '13 10:14:59 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
@shoboni: The latter is what What Do You Mean, It's Not for Kids? is about, mostly.

edited 12th Apr '13 10:15:20 AM by SeptimusHeap

 8 Noaqiyeum, Fri, 12th Apr '13 10:30:41 AM from across the gulf of space Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
No, What Do You Mean, It's Not for Kids? is about child-unfriendly works being mistaken for child-friendly.

We need something that for what I thought What Do You Mean, It's for Kids? was about, child-friendly works that nonetheless handle 'mature topics' in a sensible and maturity-appropriate manner.

edited 12th Apr '13 10:32:09 AM by Noaqiyeum

DRYH
OEOE
NSUA
TTRD
[up]What she said. I mean when a show is intended for kids, but seems like it really shouldn't be.

edited 12th Apr '13 10:33:17 AM by shoboni

"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 10 Septimus Heap, Fri, 12th Apr '13 10:33:47 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
That might be worth of a YKTTW.

Strongly support renaming both these and all "What Do You Mean" pages.

 12 shoboni, Fri, 12th Apr '13 1:45:04 PM from Iowa, USA
I'll try and put one in.
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 13 StarSword, Fri, 12th Apr '13 2:40:22 PM from somewhere in deep space Relationship Status: In denial
SF-81A Black Knight
My take: Leaving aside the misuse and snowclone angles, based on the description What Do You Mean, It's for Kids? actually covers two distinct audience reactions: kids shows that have a Fan Dumb Periphery Demographic that insists it's for adults, and kids shows that cover mature mature topics when they probably shouldn't.

edited 12th Apr '13 2:40:45 PM by StarSword

 14 shoboni, Fri, 12th Apr '13 2:43:41 PM from Iowa, USA
Done:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=o6e7quti4tvmx6tmz3bgfrpc
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
Wandering...
@Star: Even if that is correct, one is an audience reaction and the other is a theme-handling, writing thing. It should be separated into one and the other, I think.

 16 StarSword, Fri, 12th Apr '13 3:05:20 PM from somewhere in deep space Relationship Status: In denial
SF-81A Black Knight
[up] Isn't that what I just said?

EDIT: No, I guess I didn't. It's what I meant, though.

edited 12th Apr '13 3:06:19 PM by StarSword

 17 shoboni, Fri, 12th Apr '13 3:26:22 PM from Iowa, USA
[up][up]Yes, there should be two tropes.

1)When you have a kids show with a large adult fanbase, to the point it's east to forget it's a kids show(like Harry Potter)That would be this trope(which needs a re-name)

2)when a kids show actually doesn't seem like it should be a kids show.(The new trope that needs made, which I put in a discussion for up there)

edited 12th Apr '13 3:29:14 PM by shoboni

"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
Wandering...
[up]I hadn't added anything more here because you already started the split.

 19 Spark 9, Fri, 12th Apr '13 5:42:31 PM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
[up][up] That first one is already covered by Periphery Demographic, though.

And the second one is arguably this trope's counterpart, What Do You Mean, It's Not for Kids?. "Some people consider it a kids show but it has elements not suitable for children" covers both.

edited 12th Apr '13 5:43:26 PM by Spark9

Special trousers. Very heroic.
 20 shoboni, Fri, 12th Apr '13 5:50:25 PM from Iowa, USA
[up]I mean when the show has that demo to the point noone remembers it's kids show. Like Harry Potter. It's that trope that can lead to this trope. The same why Game-Breaking Bug can lead to a Gamebreaker

and that trope is when it's not a kids show, what I'm suggesting is when it is a kids show and doesn't seem like it should be. It's when Word of God considers it a kids show.

edited 12th Apr '13 5:50:52 PM by shoboni

"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
I think both shoboni's suggestions are valid pages that aren't covered elsewhere.

  1. The Audience Reaction by which fans wrongly assert that a story is for adults//
  2. Inappropriately adult elements in a work explicitly written for children

 22 shoboni, Fri, 12th Apr '13 6:01:36 PM from Iowa, USA
Yes, but I think What Do You Mean, It's for Kids?, is meant to be the former but has been misused to hell and back.

edited 12th Apr '13 6:01:50 PM by shoboni

"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
Right - I meant not covered outside this article, which should cover one but covers both and then some.

 24 Noaqiyeum, Fri, 12th Apr '13 6:19:48 PM from across the gulf of space Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
I still maintain that we should not treat this as bad-by-default, or else we would end up creating done-well and done-poorly pages.
DRYH
OEOE
NSUA
TTRD
 25 shoboni, Fri, 12th Apr '13 6:23:43 PM from Iowa, USA
It's not good or bad, the former is simply when something has reached a point where the adult fans are the majority, even though it's being made for kids.

edited 12th Apr '13 6:24:07 PM by shoboni

"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
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