Ambiguous Name: Twenty Percent More Awesome

Total posts: [21]
von Boomslang
Thinking about it (overused if great MLP reference aside), the trope itself doesn't actually have anything to do with, well, awesomeness. Wouldn't a better name be Twenty Percent More Statistical? You can't measure staticalnessness anyway, so the idea is preserved.
2 SeptimusHeap9th Apr 2013 05:56:44 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
Tag fixed.

The trope is about using comparatives (the 20% percent) on things that aren't really numbered or otherwise measurable in comparatives. It's not about statistics necessarily.
In uffish thought
I think it's fine as-is, really. Twenty Percent More Statistical could be a redirect, but names can be a more specific example like this and still be understood.
Logical step seems to be to check for misuse as an awesomeness trope.
5 EditorPallMall9th Apr 2013 09:41:58 AM from United States, East Coast
Don't Fear the Spiders
There is high potential for misusing this trope because of its name. Clearly it is when numerical measurements are being used for opinions which cannot be measured. I purpose Twenty Percent More Suggestive to reflect the flexibility of the trope.
Keep it breezy!
6 SeptimusHeap9th Apr 2013 11:52:42 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
This has 434 inbounds. Thus I oppose a rename based on possible misuse.
I did a random check of the related wicks and it seems that proper use is dominate. The only misuse I saw was a couple that actually do have something of a quantifiable nature, such as The Simpsons Tropes A to B regarding the Itchy and Scratchy Movie having 53% of original footage.

Otherwise the trope does seem to be used largely for the "I'm going to give 110% effort" cliche.
8 Nohbody9th Apr 2013 12:00:54 PM from Somewhere in Dixie , Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
I have to agree with Septimus.

It's also TRS policy that if misuse is claimed, the claimant provide evidence of such. To quote from How to Fix A Trope:

If applicable, include data. If you're making a case that the trope is being frequently misused, do a survey of all or a sampling of places where it is wicked and/or examples on the page and show what percent are misused. Be sure to survey at least 50 wicks to get a good sample size if it is unreasonable to check every wick.

[edit]As KJ just did that check, it looks like the trope name isn't ambiguous enough to cause misuse problems.[/edit]

edited 9th Apr '13 12:03:43 PM by Nohbody

In uffish thought
[up][up][up][up]If a rename was warranted, I don't see how that's an improvement, sorry.


[up][up]This too.


If a full wick check is not forthcoming in the next few days (I don't see a great need for one — I'm happy to close this thread as-is), or if there is one and it shows the trope is fine, I think this can be closed.

edited 9th Apr '13 12:10:40 PM by Telcontar

Question: Is using this trope for sayings like "Give 110%" correct use or misuse?

I'm inclined to think that it is misuse, but I would like to here other's opinion.

EDIT: I looked closer and see that the page definition explicitly allows for that. Personally, I think there is enough of a difference to split the concepts, but I'm not sure it is worth the effort.

edited 11th Apr '13 7:08:00 PM by Catbert

11 EditorPallMall11th Apr 2013 07:20:12 PM from United States, East Coast
Don't Fear the Spiders
[up]No, that is a different trope - or at least it should be. This trope is applying numerical measurements to immeasurable suggestive ideas; not nonsensical numerations in general.
Keep it breezy!
12 AnotherDuck11th Apr 2013 07:59:31 PM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
I think it's the same thing. In theory, you can measure how much a person can "give", but in practice you really can't. There are way too many factors that affect what 100% actually is, such as how you optimise your performance, stress, and danger.

What they're really talking about when using that expression is the psychological effort to drive themselves as hard as possible, and that isn't quantifiable. Giving 110% doesn't mean lifting 10% above your maximum. It just means trying harder than you should be capable of.
Check out my fanfiction!
Agreed, things like effort, stress, love, pain and "awesome" cannot be objectively scaled and that is what the trope is talking about.

If something said "80% more healthy" that might be subject to professional opinion but it at least is based on some actual statistics even if they are Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics. Like I mentioned in my earlier post a bad example was "53% original footage" and that is something you can measure and calculate.

edited 11th Apr '13 9:35:58 PM by KJMackley

14 SeptimusHeap12th May 2013 06:36:59 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
Bumping this. Is there any reason for this thread to stay open?
I'd like to see the quote changed, if only for its similarity to the title.

Something like this quote from the page would fit better.

  • In Hereville: How Mirka Got Her Sword by Barry Deutsch, a graphic novel set in an Orthodox Jewish community, the narrator declares,
—>"Naps on Shabbos afternoon are twelve times as refreshing as naps taken any other day! It's a scientific fact!"

edited 13th May '13 10:34:57 PM by Scardoll

16 AnotherDuck13th May 2013 11:01:48 PM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
[up]It may actually be possible to measure the efficiency of a nap.
Check out my fanfiction!
17 Nohbody14th May 2013 01:10:32 AM from Somewhere in Dixie , Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
^^ Trope page quotes providing the Trope Namer aren't exactly uncommon, though, and certainly isn't against any guidelines I'm aware of. A little less common is where the name was modified from the source quote, but I do recall (if vaguely) seeing some of those as well.
I just think that having a different quote would help people see the trope outside the context of the Trope Namer/quote.

If the quote I chose is not an example, then yeah, don't change it to that.
Also, the MLP quote has the 20% part, kinda explaining where it came from right off the bat, so it has that going for it.
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
20 Rethkir14th May 2013 09:47:24 PM from the gap between dimensions
I don't think anything needs to be done. It's not called "20% cooler" to be confused with the literal meaning of "cooler." The description is very clear that this refers to unquantifiable things. The image also helps, since it's showing relationship "levels."
Image Source. Please update whenever an image is changed.
21 Nohbody14th May 2013 09:53:36 PM from Somewhere in Dixie , Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
I personally vote "wrap this up". The subject of the page quote can be addressed in the relevant thread over in the Long Term Projects forum, here.
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Total posts: 21