Misused: The Messiah

The Messiah is being frequently misused for Messiah characters, i.e. characters that come to be a saviour of a people. The actual definition of the trope is just any character that's well liked by other characters. This has been causing some issues with the trope as one could understand.

In fairness, being the first doesn't prevent you from being the second. But I will admit it's a problem. Technically, we have Messianic Archetype for actual Jesus-expies, right?

The description in the first paragraph is:"The main character, simply put, loves everyone. Loves them with a deep, spiritual love that means they will shake heaven and earth, destroy gods and planets, bring nations to their knees, etc. for the person they just met yesterday. They will believe the best of everyone, and constantly give someone a second chance (though they will defeat the Big Bad). They repay cruelty with kindness and anger with calm, as long as the attacks are only against them— they're not forgiving of harm done to others. They are the ones who will suffer for the sins of their loved ones. Most people think they're insane, but somehow they pull it off. Even Mary Sue and Marty Stu are impressed." In other words "character that likes all", not " any character that's well liked".

The Laconic entry states that it is goodness taken to ludicrous levels. The Opposite Tropes page states that it's the opposite of Complete Monster.

Since being absolutely and irredeemably depraved is considered subjective on this site, could we consider being really, really good subjective as well?

This trope needs a rename - it's not what The Messiah means at all.

How can we do that without conflicting with Incorruptible Pure Pureness?

The last paragraph of the description is: "In the context of methods of climax fulfillment, this may be referred to as a "Love Hero". May overlap with For Happiness as a character motivation."

@6: We certainly can find a different name. Usually, if you can't find a distinct name, there isn't a distinct trope either.

All Encompassing Love, perhaps?

Nope, that's not true at all. Normally if you can't find a distinct name it's because either English never bothered to name it, or the term normally used in English has eight other meanings because English is a bitch like that. Or because we just aren't creative enough. It has zero to do with tropability.

I somehow like @9. @10, I'll buy the middle part.

Then I need to remove the kid from Highlander: The Animated Series. Just in the abridged origin movie alone he goes mad from power, makes an ass of himself due to ego problems, and has a My God, What Have I Done? moment.

I think people are mixing it up with The Chosen One

edited 2nd Apr '13 11:01:27 AM by shoboni

I think I'm going to go with +1 rename for several of the reasons stated above.

However, do we have actual numbers of misuse? I mean, it's a popular trope at over 2500 wicks and almost 1000 inbounds.

edited 2nd Apr '13 11:09:06 AM by AnotherDuck

I'd say rename to Love Hero. I keep forgetting which trope is The Messiah and which is Messianic Archetype. Even if I used the wrong one though, both often apply to the same character, so it might not be obvious.

edited 2nd Apr '13 11:52:39 AM by Prime32

Hmm, with 2500 wicks, I'd want to see a statistically-significant wick check (that's 50 wicks chosen randomly) before formally supporting a rename, but I find it hard to believe that a wick check won't show significant misuse. The name seems quite misleading.

I personally don't see it misused that often.

I haven't seen much explicit misuse, but I've seen enough questionable examples that I think a wick check is a good idea.

Let me try (Doublecounting pages with more than one wick):

• PlayingWith.Anti Antichrist: Unclear
• Atomic Laundromat: Zero Context
• Berserk: Zero Context
• Berserk: Correct
• Bomberman Jetters: Seems correct; kindest person in the world.
• Captain America: Zero Context
• Child Soldiers: Misuse for messianic characters.
• Child Soldiers: Likely misuse for messianic characters.
• Common Mary Sue Traits: Correct
• Death by Origin Story: Unclear
• Doctor Who: Misuse
• Enemy Within: Unclear
• Fallout: New Vegas - The Strip: Misuse
• Fallout: New Vegas - The Strip: Unclear; "see below" what?
• Forgotten Realms: Zero Context
• Genre Deconstruction: Likely misuse, since it seems to refer to an antithesis of the Antichrist.
• Genre Deconstruction: Unclear
• Grim Fandango: Misuse; it's not about "saintly".
• Hero: Likely misuse; one love doesn't seem enough.
• House of Anubis: Misuse
• Inuyasha - Main Characters: Zero Context
• Kaleido Star: Zero Context
• Kaleido Star: Zero Context
• Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep: Unclear
• Light Feminine and Dark Feminine: Unclear
• Lost Souls: Zero Context
• PlayingWith.Madonna Whore Complex: Likely misuse; that doesn't look correct at all.
• Medaka Box: "Believes that everyone can be saved. May actually be right." Likely Misuse
• TriumphantExample.M To O: Zero Context
• Mythology & Religion: Unclear
• Nigh-Invulnerability: Unclear
• Other High Council Members: Seems correct, but needs a second opinion.
• Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Zero Context
• Puella Magi Madoka Magica 2: Correct
• Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: Unclear
• Saint Seiya Gods: Zero Context
• Short Sabre Story: Unclear, needs a second opinion.
• South Park Main Characters: Zero Context
• Street Fighter III: Misuse; it's not about messiahs.
• Street Fighter III: Zero Context
• Tales of Legendia: Unclear
• Tales of Legendia: Unclear
• Tales of Legendia: Unclear
• Tales of Legendia: Unclear
• The Art of Subconscious Illusion: Zero Context
• The Guardians of Childhood: Zero Context
• The Guardians of Childhood: Likely misuse; sounds more like a plain Messiah.
• The Ultimates: Misuse; "the only good being on a team" isn't this.
• SouthPark.TropesA-D: Likely correct; needs a second opinion.
• Ugly Hero Goodlooking Villain: Unclear
• Un-Go: Likely correct; needs a second opinion.
• Western Animation: Unclear
• SoYouWantTo.Write A Magical Girl Series: Misuse; explicitly refers to "messiah".
• Zettai Karen Children: Unclear; needs a second opinion.
• Zettai Karen Children: Zero Context
• Zettai Karen Children: Unclear

You know, having recently read Watashi No Messiah Sama (I hate dashes in links), having The Messiah with that name gets a little confusing on that page, since it should be potholed to Messianic Archetype in all occasions except about one occasion (the actual entry for The Messiah). Just a small note.

edited 3rd Apr '13 9:43:50 PM by AnotherDuck

I agree that this trope is being misused, often its used to describe characters that don't really fit the trope, but I oppose renaming it. I think the messiah s the most fitting title for this kind of character and should remain as is.

No... Messianic Archetype is what The Messiah should mean. Love Hero or All Encompassing Love seems to match the description...

(Here's an example of how the name and description mismatch: Izaya Orihara would probably fall under All Encompassing Love, but he is definitely not even a Dark Messiah by any stretch of the imagination.)

I'd throw Izaya under the heading of subversion (his is a very yandere love), so maybe he's not the best example.

@4 - Because being absolutely and irredeemably depraved is subjective in real life as well. Complete Monster is a case of a bunch of overly technical nerds enforcing draconian policies on a highly suggestive trope which only corresponds for what their definition of "absolutely and irredeemably depraved" is. [/rant] Anyway, the Laconic is wrong; this is not the polar opposite of Complete Monster because it only applies in-universe.

The main problem with this trope is the name. The Messiah archtype is a term which originates outside of TVtropes which does mean a savior to a group of people. It occurs in religions, fiction, and sometimes in real life. The name needs to be changed.

edited 20th Apr '13 10:27:54 PM by EditorPallMall

Single Proposition Crowner for everyone. As usual for this current time, hooked crowners don't work, so vote on the crowner itself.

Yandere love is still love. My point is he's clearly not any kind of messiah. :P

This.