TV Tropes Org

Forums

search forum titles
google site search
Total posts: [43]  1
2

The Finnish story that inspired Tolkien- an idea I had:

 26 Morwen Edhelwen, Fri, 12th Apr '13 4:30:04 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
Came up with an idea involving the stone in the bread; maybe the stone is meant to be used to sharpen the knife and she placed it in there for the additional reason that it's a subtle way of saying, "Hey, Kullervo, your knife is blunt."

edited 12th Apr '13 6:18:31 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
 27 Morwen Edhelwen, Fri, 12th Apr '13 6:18:39 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
Part of the first chapter:

Chapter 1. Kullervo and the Maiden Of Pohjola

When I got up at dawn this morning, I knew I was in trouble. I could hear Tähetär’s voice echoing and bouncing off the thick walls. She spat out my name. “Kullervo!” The yell pierced my ears and burst my eardrums.

What have I done this time? I thought. The smell and taste of food reached my nose and mouth. I bit down on my lip and started making my bed. I didn’t want her to burst in and start yelling at me.

I finished, wiped off the blood from my mouth on my finger, and stepped over to the cupboard. After pushing open the door, I reached over to the top shelf above the compartment where the toy chest was kept and sorted through the clothes. It didn’t take long- I don’t have that many clothes. I pulled an old parka off the shelf and pulled it on over my shirt. The sealskin felt warm. There were patches all over the place. She’d sewn them on when there were tears in the skin.

Any comments on the passage?

BTW, does anyone know where I can get resources on Native American/European marriages in colonial Alaska?

edited 12th Apr '13 11:24:17 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
 28 Morwen Edhelwen, Fri, 12th Apr '13 11:25:02 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
So the draft is going generally well except for this snag; I just realised I have no idea how to transplant some elements of the original Kullervo story to an Alaskan tundra-style context, but others I'm fine with. (eg he rows a baidarka or iqyax, an Aleut canoe, while still living as a slave, and breaks it, instead of a wood nymph he meets an ircenraaq who tells him some of his family are still alive). In the backstory dealing with the Sampo, Tähetär sews a parka instead of weaving. But the main thing is; how does he come to be a slave to Ilmarinen in the first place? Aleut slavery was mostly a result of war, which is why Untamala, the mother, is with Untamo's clan.

How does Untamo even know who to sell his little nephew to? And why would they even accept an orphan from a different ethnic group (Kullervo is mixed-race Aleut, while the Maiden is Yupik/Yup'ik) to live in their household? How do they explain him being there? (Ilmarinen: "Errr... that's someone's nephew who's actually my cowherd. Slave I got Up North." His wife: "That's right.") Can someone help me out?

edited 14th Apr '13 2:52:23 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
 29 Morwen Edhelwen, Sun, 14th Apr '13 3:06:37 AM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
bump
The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
 30 Morwen Edhelwen, Sun, 14th Apr '13 1:58:13 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
Oh, and again, I'm still looking for someone to be my beta reader. Is anyone willing to do it?
The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
 31 Morwen Edhelwen, Tue, 16th Apr '13 2:48:16 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
bump
The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
 32 Best Of, Tue, 16th Apr '13 3:06:15 PM from Finland Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
I would volunteer but to be honest I'm not sure that I know Kullervo's story well enough to be able to deliver feedback of the quality you should be getting.

I was hoping that I could give you some constructive criticism about the samples you've posted so far, but frankly I can't see a way that they need improving so all I can say is that you seem to be doing a good job so far - and while that sort of feedback is nice it might not be all that helpful.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day. - Douglas Adams
 33 Morwen Edhelwen, Tue, 16th Apr '13 10:02:30 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
[up] Thanks, Best Of.
The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
 34 Tuckerscreator, Wed, 17th Apr '13 12:45:55 AM from The Death Star Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
Every film should end with a Deus T. rex Machina
I could read it, but I don't have much background on the myth either. Still, a ordinary perspective could be helpful.
I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flap-jaw space with a tuning fork does a raw blink on Hari-Kiri rock.
 35 Morwen Edhelwen, Wed, 17th Apr '13 5:41:59 AM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
@Tuckerscreator: Do you want me to PM it to you?
The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
 36 Tuckerscreator, Wed, 17th Apr '13 9:08:47 AM from The Death Star Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
Every film should end with a Deus T. rex Machina
Sure! I shall read it throughout this week.
I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flap-jaw space with a tuning fork does a raw blink on Hari-Kiri rock.
 37 Morwen Edhelwen, Wed, 17th Apr '13 9:35:46 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
Also, does anyone else see similarities to "Cinderlad" tales in Kullervo's story? Cinderlad is the Spear Counterpart of Cinderella.

edited 17th Apr '13 9:49:17 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
 38 Morwen Edhelwen, Thu, 25th Apr '13 10:35:13 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
On another forum I'm a member of (where I asked about the poem to ensure that my information about it was correct), a poster did this line-by-line translation. (I needed one because I'm planning to have a character sing it at some point). He also said the language is a combination of Finnish and Karelian.

Tuo kaunis Kalervon poika / that beautiful Kalervo's son

Kaupattih on Karjalaha / was traded (as) is into Karelia

Vienahan Venäjän moalla / into Viena* on Russian soil

Kahtee kattilah ranihe / for two worn out kettles

Viiteh viikate kuluhe / for five dull scythes

Kuutee kuokan ruopivohe / for six well used grubs

Tuo kaunis Kalervon poika / that beautiful Kalervo's son

Jopa noin sanoiksi virkki / right thus into words spoke out

"Kulla työllä uusi orja / to what labour the new slave (shall be set)

Roavolla rahan alaini?" / to toil the one worth money

Pantih lapsen katsojiksi / (he) was set to care the cild

"Syötä lasta, syö itseki / feed the child, eat yourself

Katso lasta, kaiva silmä" / watch the child, dig an eye (=be careful)

Syötti lasta, söi itseki / fed the child, ate himself

Katso lasta, kaivo silmän / watched the child, dug an eye

Jopa noin sanoiksi virkki / right thus into words spoke out

"Kull' on työllä uusi orja / to what labour the new slave

Roavolla rahan alaini?" / to toil the one worth money

Pantih nuotan soutajiksi / (he) was set the seine to row

Hänpä näin sanoiksi virkki / he this into words spoke out

"Soutanenko väen takoa / shall I row with all/full strength

Vain souan asun mukaha" / or shall I row as needed (lit. 'according to form')

Vetäjä on Venarin poika / hauler is Venari's son

Perimies Pelasen poika / steersman Pelanen's son

Hänpä noin sanoiksi virkki / he thus into words spoke out

"Mikä siitä soutajasta / what is that rower

Kuin ei soua väen takoa / who does not row with all strength

Kuin soutaa asun mukahe" / but rows as needed

Souti hankat hajalla / (he) rowed the oarlocks asunder Levitti lesen venehen / widened the (whole) boat Katajaiset koaret katko / junipery ribs (he) did snap off

Itse noin sanoiksi virkki / himself so into words spoke out

"Kull' on työllä uusi orja / to what labour the new slave

Roavolla rahan alaini?" / to toil the one worth money

Pantih häntä tarpojiksi / (he) was set to drive the fish (into sein by beating water with a pole)

Hänpä noin sanoiksi virkki / he so into words spoke out

"Tarponenko väen takoa / shall I beat with all strength

Vain tarvon asun mukahan?" / or shall I beat as needed

Vetäjä on Venarin poika / hauler is Venari's son

Perimies Pelasen poika / steersman Pelanen's son

Jop' on sanoiksi virkki / right thus into words spoke out

"Mikä siit' on tarpojasta / what is that beater

Kun ei tarvo väen takoa / who does not beat with all strength

Kuin tarpou asun mukaha" / but beats as needed

Honkan varreksi hotasi / a pine for helve (he) grabbed

Pani poajen tarpomeksi / put a flag (of stone) (at the end, to finish a tool called tarvoin)

Tarpo nuotan tappurahe / beat the seine into (a bundle of) tow

Vejen velliksi sevotti / water into pap stirred

Kalat liivakse litsotti / fishes into jelly pounded

Kalojah hän käsin kantoi / fishes he by hand carried

Itse noin sanoikse virkki / himself so into words spoke out

"Kull' on työllä uusi orja / to what labour the new slave Roavolla rahan alaini?" / to toil the one worth money

Pantih hänt' kasen ajoho / (he) was set to cut a kaski**

Leikkai puuta kaksi, kolme / cutted down trees two three

Itse nousi kannon peähä / himself rose on (the head of) a stump

"Kuni huuto kuulunohe / as far away as (my) cry is heard

Sini kaski koatukohe / thither shall kaski be cut down

Älkä vesa venykkä / shall no sprig stretch itself

Älkä kanto kasvakka / shall no stump grow (new sprigs)

Olen hyvän ottakka / may it take (=grow) good straw

Vain älkä terää tekkä / (but may it) only no head make

Kasessa Kalervon poijan / in kaski of Kalervo's son

Itse noin sanoiksi virkki / himself that into words spoke out

"Kulla työllä uusi orja / to what labour the new slave

Roavolla rahan alaini?" / to toil the one worth money

Pantih häntä paimeneksi / (he) was set to be herdsman

Viijen vitan vartihaksi / five twigs to guard

Puun kaheksan katsojaksi / trees eight to watch over

Mäni päivä männiköllä / went by a day on pine barren

Kului päivä kuusikolla / passed a day in spruce forest

Vieri vehnä koivikolla / strolled rascal in birch wood

Karkasi katajikolla / escaped on junipery (meadow)

Jo emäntä koista huusi / (already) mistress from home cried

"Aik' on syyvä uuven orjan / time (it) is to eat for the new slave

Ravita rahan alaisen" / to foster (himself) the one worth money

Veti veitsehe kivehe / drove his knife into stone

Karahutti kallivoho / struck onto rock

"Syöjätär paha emäntä / ogress evil lady (of the house)

Kiven leipo leipähäni / a stone baked into my bread Vehnän peälitse veteli / wheat over it spread Vejin veitseni kivehe / I drove my knife into stone Karahutin kallivoho" / struck onto rock

Itse noin sanoiksi virkki / himself so into words spoke out

"Millä maksan naisen naurun / with what shall I pay back woman's laughter

Naisen naurun, piian pilkan / woman's laughter, maiden's mockery

Emännän pahan piännän / mistress's bad treatment

Millä jaksan, sillä maksan" / with what I am clever at, with that shall I pay

Jo emäntä koista huuti / (already) mistress from home cried

"Mist' on paimen pillin soanut / whence has the herdsman a whistle gotten

Rautivo rahasen torven?" / the smith a high-priced horn

Jätti lehmäset leholla / (he) left the cows on the grove

Maion antajat aholla / milk-givers on the clearing

Hatasarvet hoavikolla / small-horned ones on aspen grove

Kultasarvet kuusikolla / gold-horned in spruce forest

Ajoi köllit kotihe / drove the bruins*** home

Karhut kirjokartanohe / bears to ornamented mansion

"Oi sie entini emäntä / oh thou old (pre-existent) mistress

Tule lehmies lypsämähe / come milk your cows

Roavahis roavittamahe / your neats to stroke

Vaikeitas valuttamahe!" / your difficult ones to (make milk) flow

Mäni lehmies lypsämähe / (she) went her cows to milk

Roavahia rovittamahe / neats to stroke

Vaikeita valuttamahe / difficult ones to flow

Susi peällä suimastihe / a wolf onto her jumped

Karhu peällä koamistihe / a bear on top rushed

Jalan reijestä revitti / leg from the thigh on slashed

Käen katkoi kalovehesta / arm broke up to armpit

Kiskoi karvat kinttuloista / teared hair off the shanks

Hän noin sanoiksi virkki / she thus into words spoke out

"Oi Ukko ylijumala / oh Ukko supreme god

Eli toatto taivahini / or old man heavenly

Nossa pilvi luotehesta / raise a cloud from the north-west

Toini kohta koilisesta / another soon from the north-east

Tapa sie Kalervon poika / kill thou Kalervo's son

Rakehilla rautasilla / with hails of iron

Niekloilla teräsnenillä!" / with nails steel-nosed

Hänpä joutu kuulomassa / he happened to overhear

Itse noin sanoiksi virkki / himself thus into words spoke out

"Oi Ukko ylijumala / oh Ukko supreme god

Toatto taivon valtivoija / old man heaven's ruler

Nossa pilvi luotehesta / raise a cloud from the north-west

Toini lännestä lähetä / another from west send

Vihmu vettä taivosesta / drizzle water from heaven

Mettä pilvistä pirota / juice (lit. honey) from clouds sprinkle

Jott' ei tukki tulta ottais / that log would not take fire

Vänttä veäntäisi savuo / crooked (firewood) would (not) turn into smoke

Suurena sotakesänä / in great war summer

Vainovuonna vaikiena." / in the year of persecution hard
The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
 39 Tuckerscreator, Sat, 27th Apr '13 12:13:19 AM from The Death Star Relationship Status: The Skitty to my Wailord
Every film should end with a Deus T. rex Machina
Whoa, pretty! Does it have a tune?

Make sure the song is important to the story. It bothers me when fantasy books have the sing be there for little reason than to fill space, unless that's your thing.
I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm in flap-jaw space with a tuning fork does a raw blink on Hari-Kiri rock.
 40 Best Of, Sat, 27th Apr '13 12:31:02 AM from Finland Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
Here's a Finnish heavy metal band playing the melody that's usually associated with Kalevala:
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day. - Douglas Adams
 41 Morwen Edhelwen, Sat, 27th Apr '13 1:09:01 AM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
[up] Yeah, they (traditional singers of this type of music) use the same melody for different songs.

Best Of, where did your avatar come from?

edited 27th Apr '13 1:26:06 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
 42 Best Of, Sat, 27th Apr '13 9:45:02 AM from Finland Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
[up]It's from the Discworld series by Terry Pratchett. The character in my avatar is Sam Vimes, the head of Ankh-Morpork's Night Watch. The scene where he lights a cigar with a small dragon is from an early book in the series - IIRC it's the first one that focuses on the Watch - and the illustration is from a collection of Discworld art by Paul Kidby.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day. - Douglas Adams
 43 Morwen Edhelwen, Sat, 27th Apr '13 4:47:54 PM from Sydney, Australia
Tolkien freak
[up] Oh, you're a Terry Pratchett fan? Nice picture smile
The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
The system doesn't know you right now, so no post button for you.
You need to Get Known to get one of those.
Total posts: 43
 1
2


TV Tropes by TV Tropes Foundation, LLC is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from thestaff@tvtropes.org.
Privacy Policy