Needs Help: Bondage Is Bad

Deadlock Clock: 6th May 2014 11:59:00 PM
Total posts: [64]
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26 SeptimusHeap18th May 2013 01:45:04 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
I mostly suggest redefining because it's easier to do than a split.
Just one thing about the option to redefine it and rename it Evil Bondage: what should it be redefined as? There's already an option to keep it as one trope but make the guidelines stricter.

edited 18th May '13 12:19:42 PM by abloke

28 SeptimusHeap18th May 2013 12:18:24 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
To evil bondage.
So what does that mean? Which of the three suggested tropes does it involve?

edited 18th May '13 12:22:16 PM by abloke

30 SeptimusHeap18th May 2013 12:22:52 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
First one. I support it because the distinction between these tropes is very weak, and I expect most examples to fit more than one.
My only problem with the title is that Evil Bondage might not indicate that it's specifically about it being portrayed as wrong. Whatever the title was, it would have to be clearly outlined that having villain with a BDSM theme, or a morally questionable character who practices or appears to practice BDSM, doesn't count as an automatic attack on the entire thing.

edited 18th May '13 12:31:21 PM by abloke

Evil Bondage implies that there's Good Bondage and Neutral Bondage.
33 SeptimusHeap18th May 2013 01:15:43 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
Not really. A trope doesn't need an opposite.
They may not be actual tropes, but the implication is that Evil Bondage is a variant of bondage, not the negative portrayal of all bondage.
35 SeptimusHeap18th May 2013 01:18:58 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
That difference can be significant, but can we really keep them apart?
We could avert that by giving it a "BDSM Is [Adjective]" name. With a clear description, that could work.

edited 18th May '13 2:24:08 PM by abloke

I agree with Mikuru that "Evil Bondage" implies there's tropes (or should be tropes) for Good Bondage or Neutral Bondage. I think Bondage Is Evil could be a compromise, though. It implies the work is calling bondage evil instead of saying that this is the evil version/side of bondage.
Isn't "Bad Guy Likes Bondage," as the crowner has it, already covered by Good People Have Good Sex? And I have no idea how broadly "Bondage Themed Baddie" is supposed to be defined.

edited 20th May '13 5:55:27 AM by Prfnoff

"Bad Guys Like Bondage" could fit in Good People Have Good Sex, unless the bondage is shown to be more like Brains and Bondage (that is, a smart and good thing).

Bondage-Themed Baddies would probably fit into something like the following list. Just remember that it's a costume motif first and foremost—as far as I can tell from this entire thread. I listed personality stereotypes as optional to reflect that.

  • Regardless of gender:
    • Be a villain or otherwise be an antagonist
    • Dressed in leather, rubber, or latex
    • Weapon of Choice being either a whip, flogger, violet wand thing, or some other BDSM toy
  • Female Bondage-Themed Baddies:
    • Fit the genderless requirement above
    • Optional:
      • Be a stereotypical Dominatrix (This would be considered the Dom role in a BDSM couple, obviously)
      • They might instead fit the inverse stereotype of the Dominatrix, which I cannot find the trope for. (This would be considered the sub role in a BDSM couple)
  • Male Bondage-Themed Baddies:
    • Fit the genderless requirement above
    • Optional:
      • Be a stereotypical Manly Gay (regardless of their orientation) (This would be considered the Dom role in a BDSM couple)
      • They might instead fit the stereotypical Camp Gay or Camp Straight (This would be considered the sub role in a BDSM couple)

edited 20th May '13 10:31:03 AM by DunDun

Bump for votes.
BDSM Is Evil and Bondage Themed Baddie are in the lead at +6 at 8 for and 2 against. Do we call the crowner now?

edited 7th Jun '13 2:39:27 PM by DunDun

42 SeptimusHeap7th Jun 2013 02:46:56 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
10 votes is too little. Also, we still need descriptions for those proposals.

Why is it chosen as BDSM Is Evil, not Bondage Is Evil or something? Again, for the trope "BDSM is portrayed as bad", I think the current title could be kept for that one.
44 SeptimusHeap29th Jun 2013 02:58:49 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
I assume it was a crowner writing flub.
I guess the names could be decided later, as written on the crowner description.
-sigh- This has been here for a good amount of time now. The most popular option on the crowner has little opposition too.
I think it's probably a good time to close it.

We'd need to go through the examples that are on Bondage Is Bad, and work out which ones meet the requirements of one of the new tropes and which are neither, for sorting onto the new pages. Does anyone else have any name suggestions?
48 SeptimusHeap28th Jul 2013 10:25:44 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
The names can wait until we have descriptions.
See my last post.
50 SeptimusHeap15th Aug 2013 01:12:04 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
A name is not a sufficient description.

Page Action: Bondage Is Bad
12th May '13 2:03:34 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
Bondage Is Bad has no strict guidelines on what it covers, and presently includes examples based on costumes, dialogue, the perceived attitudes of the authors, and other things. It is also being used as a platform for attacking works deemed to portray it in an unacceptable way.

Three tropes have been suggested; these names are not final.

  • BDSM Is Evil: The practice itself is actively (read: not just if you look at it a certain way) portrayed as base and immoral.
  • Bad Guy Likes Bondage: A villain is shown to have an interest in BDSM.
  • Bondage Themed Baddie: A villain has a BDSM theme or motif.

Total posts: 64
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