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Doma reads Wheel of Time (NO SPOILERS ALLOWED)

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DomaDoma Three-Puppet Saluter Since: Jan, 2001
Three-Puppet Saluter
#1: Feb 28th 2013 at 9:23:45 PM

Right. First thing you need to know is I'll be adopting the Mark Reads spoiler policy, found here under the header WHAT COUNTS AS A SPOILER. If anything falls under those very strict criteria, put it behind a spoiler tag as you probably snigger behind your hands at me.

The second thing you need to know is that I only decided to start this thread twenty-two chapters in, so here's hoping folders work in the forums. EDIT: Nope.

I'm really not a bit like Mark Oshiro, but the whole "book club where the leader is the only one who hasn't read the book" format appeals to me.

Right, let's start this.

Things I Knew Going In

  • The main character is named Rand al'Thor, and he's called the Dragon Reborn.
  • There's a character named Perrin and something happens to his wife.
  • There are a whole lot of characters.
  • There is a lot of description about what people are wearing.
  • The story gets really slow towards the middle.
  • Book ten is just a bunch of people reacting to the events of book eight. What that means for book nine, I haven't the foggiest.
  • After Robert Jordan dies and Brandon Sanderson takes over, the story wraps up and does so very well. Which is why I finally decided to read it.

Reactions, First 22 Chapters Of Eye Of The World

  • The prologue is just the perfect depth for throwing readers into the deep end. Shallow enough that you can mostly keep track of what's going on, deep enough that you can go back and work fairly obvious things out and have a nice gloat. And very hardcore.
  • The worldbuilding is awesome. Even the obligatory peasant-village-of-origin is described so crisply you want to be there. And that's not getting into all the factions we're getting glimpses of.
  • With reference to the legend of a guy flying to the moon in the belly of a fiery eagle, predating the Age of Legends - is this a very, very distantly postapocalyptic world, or do I just have way too many space travel songs in my personal library?
  • The characterization is not so awesome. At least, not with Rand. The guy's beginning to grow a spine at this point, but for much of what I've read so far, he's mainly been lugged around by our possibly-sketchy Gandalf type, Moiraine, like a suitcase with emotions.
  • Rand's adoptive father Tam, on the other hand, appears to have had quite the colorful life. Hoping I hear more.
  • Which, given that Moirane's healing powers might not have actually saved his life given Lan's explanation of the horses, I may not.
  • If Moiraine does turn out to be untrustworthy, it'll be a treat seeing what her purpose is, because I haven't the faintest.
  • What exactly is Lan? It's pretty clear he can't do magic or everyone would be flipping their shit about whatever horrible things generally happen to male magic users, but the guy's not exactly what you'd call natural. Did it explain what a Warder is on a page I missed, maybe? (You can answer that one.) I find my pages stick together and very often end at the end of paragraphs, so it could happen.
  • Mat is basically movie!Pippin.
  • Speaking of Mat's poor decisions, Mordeth is just the crown jewel of Names to Run Away from Really Fast and it amuses me that a guy named Mordeth gets all his power by gaining unwise trust. I was very much expecting Mat to have snuck some of his treasure, but thank mercy, no.
  • Egwene had a lot of promise because she had the most initiative out of the youth crowd, but as I should have seen, she was a greenhorn through and through and now that she's crumpling at the early setbacks as I should have foreseen, meh to her.
  • It was blindingly obvious that Nynaeve was the other magic user in Emond's Field, so thank you, Jordan, for not living down to my fears and dragging out the mystery.
  • But wow does that make Rand's manic episode challenging the Whitecloaks into an ohshit moment. Though, as I know he's the Dragon Reborn and the original Dragon apparently fucked himself up on saidin, it should probably have been blindingly obvious that he'd be a male mage?
  • Dayum, if untrained female mages die of days-long convulsions of agony, what the hell happens to the mages whose power is literally tainted by Satan? They don't all just kill everyone they ever loved, because Lews Therin being the Kinslayer is still a huge deal however-many Ages later. So... what is it?
  • I have no idea at what point Rand first used his power, though, to have that reaction a weekish later. Hrm. Hope he didn't waste it on killing his first Trolloc. You can just tell those guys are going to be pure cannon fodder in a book or two.
  • Anyway Nynaeve is a blast to read. She's just so mulishly determined, I love her.
  • But not as much as I love Perrin. The twenty-second chapter is his first POV chapter, and it's what convinced me to stay. He's just the most collected sleeve-roller-upper. It is awesome.
  • Is his wife Egwene, then? I notice they're the only ones who end up paired off when the party splits.
  • And we already know that Rand doesn't end up with Egwene, which is good, because they have no chemistry whatsoever.
  • Halfway through the first book and we're already splitting the party three ways? Yes, I think I can see why it gets slow. But I don't care thus far, because Nynaeve and Perrin put Rand's dull ass to shame.
  • If the three-way split were actually Moiraine getting killed off instead, I'd have put the book down. The butter-and-tree-roots lift was bad enough without stealing Moria like some low-down Terry Brooks.
  • Oh I forgot about Thom. So far he's just kind of a walking vehicle for exposition. But damn, the cadence of Jordan's exposition is mighty fine.
  • There are apparently three Chosen Ones? And they're all best friends in the same podunk village? I daresay that the Pattern is wasting no time forming its party.
  • Though being integral to the Pattern is apparently not as big a deal as being Rand, Mat or Perrin. Hope the story doesn't take forever clarifying, especially as, again, I know Rand at least is the Dragon Reborn and even if I didn't know, that's how these stories tend to go.
  • So the Dark One's goal is to end time? Which means he conquers the entire timeline, according to the back cover? Yeah, I think the cosmology is going to make my brain hurt.
  • "Blood and ashes" is very fun to say.
  • That's all I can think of. More detail-per-page will come when I'm posting about smaller chunks, I'm sure.

Overall? It's already a pretty slow read so I shudder to think what the middle of the series will be like, but I like this. I really do.

edited 28th Feb '13 10:30:14 PM by DomaDoma

Hail Martin Septim!
JimmyTMalice from Ironforge Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#2: Feb 28th 2013 at 11:33:08 PM
Thumped: Please see The Rules . This is a warning that this post is the sort of thing that will get you suspended.
"Steel wins battles. Gold wins wars."
Ironeye Cutmaster-san from SoCal Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
#3: Feb 28th 2013 at 11:43:48 PM

Spoiler rules were declared in the first post. Be sure to follow them.

edited 28th Feb '13 11:43:53 PM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#4: Mar 1st 2013 at 11:14:12 AM

Good luck on the series, just avoid this site's pages if you want to remain unspoiled. [lol]

Regarding the cosmology, time in Wo T is cyclical (hence the whole "Wheel" of Time thing). The current story is both our distant past and distant future. Just as our history is their legends, their story is our myths and legends. I'm sure you could pick up tons of Arthurian motifs in Wo T even without others pointing it out.

edited 1st Mar '13 11:15:35 AM by nightwyrm_zero

SKJAM Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
#5: Mar 1st 2013 at 1:49:59 PM

Shouldn't this be in the liveblogs section?

ryzvonusef ryzvonusef from Pakistan Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
ryzvonusef
#6: Mar 1st 2013 at 9:23:02 PM

[up]Good point.

Live Blogs are Here: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/lbs.php

Requesting Mods to move this thread to live blogs.

Herald of the Literature Sub-Forum. Share me your favourite book/series/author!
DomaDoma Three-Puppet Saluter Since: Jan, 2001
Three-Puppet Saluter
#7: Mar 3rd 2013 at 12:50:38 PM

Poop, looks like someone has already done this exact thing. Also, I've lost my copy - meant to cover up to Perrin leaving the Tuatha'an (even though Whitebridge would have been a much better stopping place; I got a little compulsive) but it's better to have a reference so I know which parts are confined to the latest section.

But, I can cover the two main plot developments.

First, there's Thom's death. I'm not 100% certain he did die, but presumably it would have been ideal for the Myrdraal to grab Rand and Mat right then and there, so the other option, that he's working a long game, seems off the table for now. Although, given his efforts to keep them from Tar Valon, I wouldn't take that development amiss. But reading it at face value, Thom was a consummate Knight in Sour Armor with a hell of a lot of charm, and I hope I learn more about him in Caemlyn.

Secondly, there's the fact that Rand, Mat and Perrin are apparently chosen by Satan. I think they had better read up on that Hunter for the Horn who's said to have had a similar problem - and here would be a really good time to have Thom around. Also... wanna bet that Mat wasn't so much intimidated in his dreams as told, "come to the Dark Side, we have treasure"? The fact that his dagger a) came from a city so evil the evil still kills people centuries after everyone in it is dead and b) is mentioned in a prophetic vision can not be a good sign.

EDIT: No, no, I'm reading The Liveblog Of Time now and it really puts me to shame. Any further posts of mine will just go over there.

EDIT 2: Read the Liveblog up to where I did let off, and I'm catching on to things that he hasn't, and besides - though I didn't run into anything major - the commenters have no compunction about spoiling. I think I'll be happy doing this some more.

edited 3rd Mar '13 1:40:31 PM by DomaDoma

Hail Martin Septim!
Sabbo from Australia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#8: Mar 3rd 2013 at 3:49:48 PM

I think the mention of the liveblog section here was so that you could make your own liveblog.

That said, I like your interpretations, and the commenters in the Liveblog of Time slow down with the spoilers later in a hope to get Eegah to start reading comments again.

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#9: Mar 3rd 2013 at 10:31:28 PM

What exactly is Lan? It's pretty clear he can't do magic or everyone would be flipping their shit about whatever horrible things generally happen to male magic users, but the guy's not exactly what you'd call natural. Did it explain what a Warder is on a page I missed, maybe? (You can answer that one.) I find my pages stick together and very often end at the end of paragraphs, so it could happen.

Warders have a spell that makes them slightly tougher and with a slight healing factor. In addition, they're slightly psychic for their Sedai.

On Perrin's wife: he isn't married yet, since you asked.

None of the characters (to my memory) are married yet or in any kind of serious romantic relationship. Most of them are in that "just out of highschool" setup if you want to put it into modern terms.

Dayum, if untrained female mages die of days-long convulsions of agony, what the hell happens to the mages whose power is literally tainted by Satan? They don't all just kill everyone they ever loved, because Lews Therin being the Kinslayer is still a huge deal however-many Ages later. So... what is it?

Men go insane. The insanity usually manifests that way.

Fight smart, not fair.
Zizoz Since: Feb, 2010
#10: Mar 4th 2013 at 10:30:04 AM

I think male channelers die in the same way as female ones if they don't learn to control it; if they do, they get to survive a bit longer and then go insane.

nightwyrm_zero Since: Apr, 2010
#11: Mar 4th 2013 at 1:42:05 PM

Then they start to rot alive. Fun times.

Sabbo from Australia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#12: Mar 4th 2013 at 3:01:41 PM

Doma Doma, don't listen to them; you'll find out how it actually works if you read through the series yourself.

DomaDoma Three-Puppet Saluter Since: Jan, 2001
Three-Puppet Saluter
#13: Mar 4th 2013 at 3:36:57 PM

Seriously. Informing me that the main character will probably go insane and/or rot alive is just about the opposite of avoiding spoilers. I don't think Deboss is constitutionally capable of trolling, but the rotting alive thing is much less consonant with what I've read thus far, so I can reasonably doubt it.

Now you've got me mulling over ways Rand can reasonably avoid going insane. (I doubt he's going with whatever the Red Ajah do and am currently leaning toward the notion that he somehow gets secretly trained and then never, ever uses it. Or maybe his manic episode was something else, but I doubt it.) I don't think it's possible for me to unhear a meaningful spoiler, so let me reiterate that I was serious.

What I always did during Mark Reads Harry Potter was post about my initial reactions. We really did a number on him that way where Snape was concerned, I can tell you.

edited 4th Mar '13 3:37:52 PM by DomaDoma

Hail Martin Septim!
Sabbo from Australia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#14: Mar 4th 2013 at 4:32:41 PM

Just remember that just because somebody says something - and even if they believe it to be true - doesn't mean that it is true, nor that whatever interpretation a listener/reader makes would be correct either.

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#15: Mar 4th 2013 at 7:59:57 PM

I'm giving you no information on Rand. I'm telling you what happened (to the best of my memory) to the male channelers between The Breaking and the events of the book. Using Saidin drove them insane. It manifested in various ways, such as flinging power around, leveling their village, cursing themselves to die, etc. IIRC, most men committed suicide before it came to that, or were caught by the Reds.

I said this because I don't think it's a spoiler, but a basic background part of the verse. This is common knowledge within the verse, and a basic part of the back ground setup in the same way that being a mutant leads to being persecuted in X Men.

However, Sabbo is correct, I may have misinterpreted or be misremembering as I read the first one back in freshmen year of college. In addition, much of the information I remember doesn't have a time stamp, so if you ask a question I'm going to try to answer it. However, if I remember it being a reveal, I'll not mention it. Although, not mentioning would confirm it's a reveal. Hm. I'll try to answer to the best of my knowledge questions I think are about interpretation over events in a "what did this do" way.

Keep in mind though: Rand is The Chosen One, which may or may not provide immunity to insanity what with being the chosen one. We'll let you decide.

Fight smart, not fair.
DomaDoma Three-Puppet Saluter Since: Jan, 2001
Three-Puppet Saluter
#16: Mar 5th 2013 at 3:58:03 PM

Stop digging. If I haven't read about it yet, keep it behind a spoiler tag. End of story. (Questions I don't specifically allow answers to are just me wondering.)

edited 5th Mar '13 4:00:40 PM by DomaDoma

Hail Martin Septim!
Ironeye Cutmaster-san from SoCal Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
Cutmaster-san
#17: Mar 5th 2013 at 11:14:31 PM

The spoiler policy was clearly linked in the opening post. There have already been multiple warnings, including one official one. This will be the last.

edited 5th Mar '13 11:14:48 PM by Ironeye

I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
Yuanchosaan antic disposition from Australia Since: Jan, 2010
antic disposition
#18: Mar 6th 2013 at 12:02:10 AM

I'd like to post, but I'm sincerely unsure what I can post in this thread. The spoiler policy is a little intimidating. What sort of response are you looking for, Doma?

"Doctor Who means never having to say you're kidding." - Bocaj
Sabbo from Australia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#19: Mar 6th 2013 at 3:06:27 AM

If he has already read a chapter, then we can talk about anything in that chapter. I believe he was currently most the way (half the way?) through the first book. If you can remember conclusions you made or thoughts you had by the time you were up to that point, then you may say them.

EDIT: Specifically, his spoiler rules (as appropriated from somebody else) are the following:

  • Do not outright state something which happens in the future.
  • Do not hint at something which happens in the future.*
  • Do not say that a specific moment is important.
  • Do not defend or speak against a character while citing your reasons to be later events
  • Do not tell him to look back at a previous event (for foreshadowing)*
  • If it has anything to do with something unread, don't say it.
  • Don't tell him he interpreted a scene wrong, or made a wrong prediction.*

These are detailed right at the start of his first post, if you bother to click the link. Yes they're strict, but they're also quite reasonable for somebody who's fiercely avoiding spoilers, as far as I'm concerned.

edited 6th Mar '13 3:17:45 AM by Sabbo

DomaDoma Three-Puppet Saluter Since: Jan, 2001
Three-Puppet Saluter
#20: Mar 6th 2013 at 5:06:55 AM

Things that are okay to discuss:

  • Your reactions up to the point I've read.
  • Literary criticism of things I've read about.
  • Things I legitimately missed. One thing I forgot to mention about my foreknowledge is that there are a lot of blink-and-you'll-miss-it moments that later become vital. It would probably enhance my experience if you point those out to me when they do.

That's all I can think of at the moment, but I haven't been in the position of commenting on a blind blog in a while.

Hail Martin Septim!
Yuanchosaan antic disposition from Australia Since: Jan, 2010
antic disposition
#21: Mar 6th 2013 at 12:19:21 PM

^^I read the link - hence why I found the policy intimidating, as it's fairly comprehensive and I didn't want to accidentally post a spoiler. ^Was what I was after, thanks.

"Doctor Who means never having to say you're kidding." - Bocaj
DomaDoma Three-Puppet Saluter Since: Jan, 2001
Three-Puppet Saluter
#22: Mar 7th 2013 at 4:15:28 AM

All right, replaced my copy. Officially, now...

Reactions, Eye of the World, Chapters 23-27

  • Elyas is an awesome grizzled-hobo sort of character. Making those creepily pacifist Tuatha'an uncomfortable is just a bonus.
  • So Warders and Aes Sedai generally go together, do they? And Lan had a sword literally from the cradle? I think we've got to meet a character at some point who wasn't happy about being buttonholed into the life of a Warder without being asked. If not, it's a tragically missed angle.
  • Gentling wouldn't have worked on Elyas's wolf powers, but it still would have happened, hmm? And Elyas killed people to avoid it? Right now, I'm going to say that gentling is basically magical castration.
  • EGWENE, SERIOUSLY, GET TO TAR VALON. Did Moiraine never explain to you that you gon' die? Well, as she started Egwene on magic in the first place, I don't think it would have gone over well.
  • Perrin and Egwene do have a lot of chemistry, as it happens. So I am calling, right now, that she marries Perrin and then never gets her butt trained in the One Power due to some variety of roadside complication.
  • I guess we're probably going to see Aram again. Not sure what to make of that, except he'll probably be a Lost One at the time.
  • But sincere hippies really are infectious to be around. Jordan has that absolutely right. Points to Perrin for keeping his focus under the intense barrage of hippie hospitality.
  • Not that Perrin needs extra points. He's just the best.
  • WILL YOU TELL ME WHAT THE EYE OF THE WORLD IS ALREADY? The closest we've gotten so far is that blinding the Eye of the World is like starving a stone. Meaning that the Eye of the World doesn't actually see anything, just like a stone doesn't eat? But blinding it is in the Dark One's agenda book nonetheless? I don't get this at all. I really wish everyone familiar with the legend wouldn't just assume everyone knows about it. Lawks.
  • As barbarian races go, the Aielmen sound considerably more awesome and less annoying than the norm.
  • Glad Rand has his silver coin back.
  • Seriously, since Shadar Logoth, Mat is being all secretive - including about his dreams, mind you - and just going through the motions of caring about anything but treasure. Except he's apparently reluctant to sell his dagger. All the happy thoughts.
  • No, looking back, I'm pretty sure Thom is dead, or is a badass with his heart in the right place. It's the fact that he named the nephew the Aes Sedai sort-of-killed that clinches it for me.
  • Where is Nynaeve?

My overall impression is that the three-way split isn't so bad for now, but that things are going to exacerbate it in a hurry.

edited 7th Mar '13 4:20:45 AM by DomaDoma

Hail Martin Septim!
Sabbo from Australia Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
#23: Mar 7th 2013 at 5:56:18 AM

Gentling wouldn't have worked on Elyas's wolf powers, but it still would have happened, hmm? And Elyas killed people to avoid it? Right now, I'm going to say that gentling is basically magical castration.

Would you like this to be clarified?

ArcadesSabboth from Mother Earth Since: Oct, 2011
#24: Mar 7th 2013 at 8:48:55 AM

Hm, maybe the Eye of the World is a legend as famous as the Dragon Reborn, and everybody in the setting is just assumed to know what it is unless they're a little, little kid. In which case it's perfectly realistic that nobody goes into detailed exposition.

"As You Know, the sky is blue, grass is green, blood is red, and Aes Sedai have magic powers."

edited 7th Mar '13 8:49:59 AM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
JimmyTMalice from Ironforge Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#25: Mar 7th 2013 at 12:06:13 PM

The Tuatha'an are really annoying because they try and shove their philosophy in people's faces (although it's not like they abduct children like people claim) and being Actual Pacifist really doesn't work for them in a world as violent as theirs.

"Steel wins battles. Gold wins wars."

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