Jade Empire

Dawn Star: Closed Fist, Romanced, No Father -

"The defeat of Sun Li signaled the rise of <Full Name>, and at his side stood Dawn Star. She was devoted to his efforts; he had convinced her that the only valid response to adversity is an adequately forceful reply. Only a firm hand could prevent another tyrant coming to power, and no one was more suited than the Spirit Monk she had helped ascend. Dawn Star became a tempering influence, and made certain that the people of the Empire had their needs met, if not all of their wants. Their Empire, as long as it lasted, was strong and prosperous."

Silk Fox: Closed Fist, Romance -

"In the wake of Sun Li's defeat, <Full Name> assumed control of the Empire. Princess Lian lent the new emperor legitimacy through her family line, and as Emperor and Empress they turned a chaotic and fractured land into an economic and military powerhouse. Anyone who challenged their rule awakened a fury that not even the gods could contain, and even whispered secrets earned quick reprisals. Empress Lian continued to prowl as the shadowy Silk Fox, but unbeknownst to those who had encountered the supposed outlaw, this new version was dedicated to maintaining the new order. Much as Death's Hand had served her father, she controlled the flow of all information within the Empire. This combination of power and cunning ensured that the reign of <Full Name> would be long remembered."

Seems like happy endings to me.

Sadly, I got Dawn Star w/ "Father" ending which is a bit bleak for my darling...

"The defeat of Sun Li signaled the rise of <Full Name>, and Dawn Star was ever at his side. She was devoted to his efforts, but personal turmoil clouded her mind. She had found her lost father, but Sun Li was not the man she had wanted him to be. It was as if he had killed her true father, the idealized Master Li that now only existed in her memories. She grew cold over time, and without her tempering influence, the Jade Empire became a demanding place to live, controlled through force of arms. But the tighter the reigns, the harder the resistance, and the reigns were very tight indeed. Dawn Star would stand by <Full Name> to the end."

See, the top Dawn Star ending makes no sense in the context of Closed Fist. It's exactly what Sun Li is doing without Sun Li's overweening ego. It's one of the purest possible expressions of Open Palm: using martial force to defend the weak, on an Empire-wide scale.

Closed Fist doesn't mean stupid, though. A ruling CF Emperor Spirit Monk would logically want a stable, controlled empire. A contented citizenry means a better reign for you. Constantly provoking them to rebellion might test everyone's strength but that be just kinda self-defeating.

Because my waifu was greatly annoyed by the first hour or so of Mass Effect 2, we've switched gears to Jade Empire.

We are...considerably more Open Palm than we were Paragon.

Waifu continues her playstyle of "if you are nice to me, I will be nice to you." She does find that she needs to be motivated by money/rewards a bit more compared to Mass Effect. The one part that we really diverged on was the slave girl who you can give a knife to, she opted to just free the girl herself (of course, it's absolute garbage that selling her yourself is considered the "more" Closed Fist choice). We also opted for the turtle egg solution (although that was more because she thought it'd be funny).

We're at the Lotus Assassin HQ right now. Can't wait to see how she reacts to The Twist and also the final choice.

"and even whispered secrets earned quick reprisals."

Big Brother Is Watching = happy ending?

You must really think Nineteen Eighty-Four was a feel good story.

And now you have me vaguely interested in just what or why did your wife abandon Mass Effect 2 so quickly... or just how that brief playthrough went.

"Waifu continues her playstyle of "if you are nice to me, I will be nice to you."

I did not read your account of you and your wife playing through ME 1 apart from a post or two but this at least sounds like me. Not to be egotistical but it is nice to find somebody else who shares my ideals on this matter. If someone treats you well, you should repay them in kind.

Who is your wife's favorite character so far?

This game is great but painfully short compared to Mass Effect. Still, hope you two have fun.

I would also like to know why you quit the best Bio Ware game ever.

edited 3rd Jan '18 8:13:15 AM by Nikkolas

Nikkolas: yeah, that's generally her rule of thumb, although both Mass Effect and Jade Empire doesn't really give you much in the way of characters who are nice to you yet are horrifically evil (the closest is TIM, and TIM...practically oozes "I am not a trustworthy person" anyways) so that doesn't really get tested much.

She's okay with most everyone so far. Only character she hates is Silk Fox, who she finds extremely bitchy to the point of not wanting to do any of her dialog options. She's not particularly fond of Wild Flower, but that's mainly because she doesn't like small children, and Wild Flower has the benefit of having an adorable fluffy monster form.

Sgt Ricko: she liked the graphics/animation for Shepard being revived. Nearly every other narrative choice up to landing at Omega she found to be contrived and really dumb. She also hates Miranda (she was only initially nice to her because she figured "Miranda resurrected me so I should at least try" but quickly got turned off), and found the heat sinks mechanic to be really dumb from a story perspective. It's a matter of having spent like 1-2 hours and being bombarded with stuff we didn't like because it was quite clear that it was just a lot of "let's introduce this shocking change for shock value!" We'll probably be picking it up again in a few months.

And ME 2 might have some characters with interesting sidequests, but hardly the best Bioware game ever.

We rekt the Lotus Assassins yesterday. We like how you can drop the golem on Master Gang just for funsies. Also, wrecking the Jade Golems with a maxed out Mirabelle is quite fun, and I discovered that really I'm supposed to use focus mode to make reloading go faster.

ME 2 has many great features that make it stand above other BW games. The characters are a big part of the package no doubt but not the only thing.

And Miranda is really nice to you once you get control of the Normandy and just start visiting her for the typical "squadmate talks.". Her unpleasantness is strongest before you become her commander. After that she's pretty professional and treats you with initial dutiful courtesy and then genuine warmth later on down the line.

Has your wife played Dragon Age or does she have any intention to play DA in future?

While I think its mostly because Miranda is badly written, she is good example why "I'm asshole if you are asshole and I'm nice if you are nice" isn't nuanced way to look at the world

Are you insulting my fictional Space Australian waifu?!

Seriously, I don't see how Miranda is any worse written than anyone else in ME 2. But perhaps this should go in the ME General Thread.

Here, have some great JE music.

That is such an awesome theme song.

Whatevs, Tali's where it's at - you can keep the Miranda and her bizarre jawline, while I keep my space-waifu who can fix virtually anything!

Curse you all! The sudden thread activity got my hopes up.

Ah well, my favorite character was Silk Fox despite not usually liking her character type. I also really liked the Closed Fist route for just how much of a scum you can be. Games with morality systems chicken out of making the main character worse than the villain more often than they should.

I ended up really loving Dawn Star on my second run. She's right up there with Merrill for me. (which, I guess, makes sense since they are both examples of BW's Little Sister archetype....)

Master Li being an Open Palm Big Bad was pretty excellent. I never fully believed he was just your kindly old master with the voice they gave him and the way he conveniently happened to make it out of Two Rivers when no one else did, but the scope and breadth of his plan and the way all the unexpected tiny threads wove back together, that was one of Bioware's finer tricks.

To this day, I wish we could've seen Phoenix Gate and the Hills of the Holy Scrolls. Hell, even if we never get a proper sequel, I'd love it if they just put out a lorebook or something. Or license the IP, talk to Obsidian. They're busy lately, but Pillars 2 is almost out, and I bet they'd crush that.

...Semi-related, but it occurs to me, that anyone who liked the plot of this game might enjoy Torment: Tides of Numenera, if you haven't played that already.

Jade Empire had some of the weaker party members in Bioware's history. Aside from the little girl Wild Flower being possessed by two spirits (which, amazingly enough, played quite differently and had their own separate arcs) and Black Whirlwind's absurd rampage stories, the rest of the cast were memorable, but not... outstanding.

It really says something when the most memorable thing about Sky was that Cam Clarke voiced him, and virtually nothing of his backstory, motivations, or even how he's potentially bisexual. Or that Dawn Star was annoyingly naive and sweet, at least for my tastes - though admittedly her behavior is rather realistic, given the situation she's thrusted into. Except for the constant killing part. You'd think being forced to take lives in combat would cause her to crack a whole lot quicker, but it takes until roughly the Jade palace before that starts happening.

edited 4th Jan '18 9:12:33 AM by SgtRicko

Tides has that problem too, I would say. The followers are less over the top than they might have been. But that's at least partly because, like Fallout New Vegas, the games are more about the plotting and the actions of your adversaries than they are about wandering around aimlessly with your adventure buds. Definitely not saying there's anything wrong with the latter, but you can tell where the effort went. With Jade Empire in particular a lot of characters are specifically there to make the Big Bad's scheming that much more impressive. Sagacious Zu and the other Sun brothers in particular only exist so that *someone* can explain the sheer brilliance of his machinations to you.

edited 4th Jan '18 10:21:57 AM by Unsung

Explained what I mean in ME thread :D

All is forgiven my friend. :)

JE doesn't have the best cast, that is true. However I like the fact you have to work at Zu's and Dawn Star's subplot and then it actually factors into the ending kinda. Poor Dawn Star becomes miserable though if she finds out Li was her father... :( It's almost kinda not having her find out.

I actually like Dawn Star, but I generally like the all-around nice gals. They're who you'd actually want to have a life with. Whirlwind was great for me, but mainly because I loved reading Outlaws Of The Marsh when I was a kid. Taking him into the Lotus Assassin base was...interesting, though, since it seems that that's where his Closed Fist alignment tends to come out the most. Previously you might have thought he was just some jolly old Boisterous Bruiser, here he's quite fond of kill them all as the end rather than the means.

Everyone else was kinda...meh. Here I used Sky mainly so he could keep enemies busy while I shot them with Mirabelle, or give me additional Focus so I can shoot them with Mirabelle.

Although having recently done a writeup on Chinese history with an aside on the Opium Wars for a Quora answer, shooting fantasy Chinese people in kung fu land using a Wester firearm feels...odd.

Nice girls are ripe for Corrupt the Cutie. (evil smirk)

Closed Fist Dawn Star is pretty frickin' hot, not gonna lie.

It seems to be a running theme in these games, whether it's CF Dawn Star or Dark Side Mira in KOTOR II, that "I refuse to be a victim anymore" is treated as a bad orr ominous thing.

Or Dark Side Brianna.

That said, I always light side my followers.

...don't the followers all look the same regardless of alignment? Or do we mean that the idea of Dawn Star as a dark action girl is hot?

On the whole, I find the two endgame Closed Fist decisions to appeal to me the most. Death's Hand has been bound as a servant to both false Emperors for so long, it's about time he benefitted me for a change. As for the Water Dragon, game was all but hinting that the only reason the ghosts were a problem was because Sun Hai wasn't taking on its psychopomp duties, and was solving that problem by just sticking the ghosts inside golems. As the Spirit Monk, it is not unreasonable to believe that now that I know this is a problem, I can just take over her duties in that area too. But most importantly, the spirits of the Celestial Bureaucracy are...assholes, the lot of them. The sooner they are stripped of their power to influence humanity's lives, the better. Furthermore, the Outlanders are still out there, and given how easily golems get wrecked by Mirabelle, the Jade Empire absolutely needs some power that can fight them.

My Closed Fist Spirit Monk fought for a future where the Jade Empire will never become the sick man of Asia as its IRL counterpart did, but instead imitates its seeking of strength not in gods or emperors, but within itself.

The Jade Golems are created by painfully sacrificing a living being, not a dead spirit, and sometimes it takes more than a single person in the process. And once a spirit is free, it's practically like your typical respawning MMO enemy; you can temporarily defeat it, but it'll eventually return and menace the area it was previously at, and continue doing so until either exorcised or allowed into the afterlife. And guess who's the only group in Jade Empire's world capable of handling such tasks? The deities.

Basically, you're making the same mistake the previous emperor did in thinking he could conquer the heavens, when in reality he was just upsetting the balance for a bunch of things and didn't even fully fix the drought.