Is this an example?

Author's Saving Throw is when a creator changes something about a work and then changes it back when that change proves to be unpopular.

In Doctor Strange (2016) the authors saving throw entry for the Ancient One states that the creators made it clear that Tilda Swinton was not the only Ancient One in response to the criticism of changing the character from an Asian man to a white woman.

I deleted the example on the grounds that this is just a justification for the Race Lift, rather than actually changing anything, as the implication of the old status quo is not the same as actually changing it back.

Another troper readded it saying "If anything, the Ancient One example fits it better."

Rather than start an edit war, I thought I'd ask here whether the Ancient One is an example of Author's Saving Throw in this context.

Uhhhh, I have some a couple infomercials that might count as a example as Advertising Disguised as News.

• The first infomercial is the latest infomercial for Beachbody's Focus T-25 workout program and it is cleverly disguised as a typical daytime talk show that's basically a ripoff of The View called The Trend, complete with rubbish theme tune! So far, These are the only clips available on YouTube. But when you happen to see the infomercial one night, You'll see what I mean
• And the second one is the infomercial for male enhancement pills called 100% Male, It was disguised as a talk radio show called The Trey Morgan Show with Shirley Rome hosted by (you guessed it) Trey Morgan and Shirley Rome. It was hilarious! (and sadly also not on YouTube...)

Could someone take a look at these examples.

Trivia.Cinderella 2015:

• Dyeing for Your Art: An inversion. Richard Madden had to have his hair chemically straightened and have extensions put it, as his hair was too short beforehand.

The SpongeBob Movie: Sponge Out of Water:

• Naked People Are Funny: It is pointed out that Plankton is naked when Past SpongeBob asks why he's naked. Plankton explains that he goes nude because they don't make clothes his size.

City of Ember:

• Adaptation Expansion: In the book, Lina's father died from a coughing sickness that was plaguing the city. In the film, he drowned in an attempt to escape the city, alongside Doon's father.
• Blonde, Brunette, Redhead: Lina is a strawberry blonde, Doon has black hair and Poppy has auburn.
• Color-Coded Characters: Lina is always in red and orange, Doon in blue and black and Poppy in purple.
• Diesel Punk: The titular city is hinted to have significant dieselpunk influences in its heyday - most electricity comes from batteries or portable extensions, and there's a lot of steam power. Of course, it's all decaying now...

Reposting my query here: Is it still a Noodle Incident if the incident is explained out-of-work? For example, in Creature Feature, the members of Tub Ring sent Curtis a box of hot dogs. Curtis then bombs a hot dog factory in response. Reading the books normally, one wouldn't know why Tub Ring sent him the hot dogs and why Curtis responded the way he did. However, the author has stated on her Tumblr that the joke was referencing a video posted of Tub Ring's exploits while Curtis was touring with them. Namely, it was the part where they're grilling hot dogs and Curtis drops his on the floor. A member of Tub Ring then "washes it off" with urine and eats it.

I'm going to lean on it not being a Noodle Incident.

edited 30th Jul '16 10:38:24 PM by Karxrida

Cinderella / Dyeing for Your Art. Substantial changes are substantial changes regardless of the direction, so the Inversion part is wrong but the rest is fine.

Spongebob / Naked People. Seems OK.

City Of Ember Adaptation Expansion - the trope is about large scale expansion of the story. Without having seen it, I can't be certain about the validity but as written I would tend to doubt it.

Blond, Brunette, Redhead - nope. The trope is explicitly three women and from what I see, Doon is a guy.

Color-Coded Characters - do they always wear those colors? Also, is this movie only or book also?

Diesel Punk - 'hinted influences' sounds like weasel worded shoehorning, so no go.

Could someone take a look at these examples.

Jupiter Ascending:

• The Greys: The "keepers." They're employed by Balem to guard Earth and maintain the Masquerade, and have all the hallmarks of the trope, including grey skin, large heads, and no clothes.
• Rule of Three: There are three Abrasax siblings, which Jupiter meets in turn, each one more evil and ruthless than the last.
• Space Opera: A romantic love story with political intrigue and epic battles? Definitely.

Trivia.Jupiter Ascending:

• Chronically Killed Actor: Subverted with Sean Bean as Stinger: he lives through not one, but two action sequences.

Penguins of Madagascar:

• Batter Up!: Private takes out one of Dave's henchmen with this, rescuing the North Wind from the Death Trap.

The Greys looks fine.

I'm not really sure about examples for Rule of Three or Space Opera, since they're both super-broad supertropes that function more like an index than anything.

I'm also not sure about listing subversions of Chronically Killed Actor, even for memetic cases like Sean Bean. "Actor's character is not killed" doesn't sound noteworthy.

Batter Up! appears correct, but should definitely be rewritten so as not to require looking at the trope. "With this" should be changed to "with a baseball bat". (I'm also not sure if the trope is supposed to include one-off uses, or should be limited to people who use a baseball bat as their Weapon Of Choice).

edited 31st Jul '16 5:27:38 PM by nrjxll

Is Can't Get Away with Nuthin' sufficiently common to list aversions?

Only in Television does Can't Get Away with Nuthin' even approach being omnipresent, and even there there are broad swaths of programing where it doesn't apply so no it does not make any sense to list aversions.

Trivia.Little Nemo Adventures In Slumberland claims that one of its songs was originally written for Labyrinth. Can anyone verify this? It literally marks the first time I remember hearing of The Sherman Brothers becoming involved with Labyrinth, and Jim Henson rattling off three pop stars as possible Goblin Kings in the bonus features makes me especially suspicious.

So I have an question...

So I have an BMD-1 and it has two weapons: an anti-tank cannon and an ATGM launcher that functions like an SACLOS warhead that requires the player to keep their cursor on the the enemy tank if they want an hit. Now if the cannon takes just over six seconds to reload and the missiles have an reload time of 20 seconds. And you can't use them simultaneously. Now assuming that it takes around four or five seconds to switch between these weapons and the player switches weapons immediately after firing an ATGM; does it counts as Dual Wielding if there's an five second delay between your attack with two different weapons?

It's not dual wielding if it's a vehicle.

This might seem stupidly obvious, but... Non-Mammal Mammaries would never apply in cases such as Spider People who have definitely human(oid) mammalian torsos and explicitly lactate, right? That is, it only applies if the breasts-bearing torso is obviously either nonhuman (nonhuman primates don't have prominent breasts like us) or outright non-mammalian?

I'd say it doesn't apply if the creature has a clearly human upper body, such as a mermaid or your example.

If they're half-kinds, and half of them is human, I don't think they count as non-mammals.

Thought so. Just checking.

Incidentally, by that logic, Human Outside, Alien Inside would apply to such half-human-bodied beings if the human part's internal anatomy significantly diverges from the human baseline (e.g. a mermaid having gilled lungs, a swim bladder, and a Weberian apparatus), right?

Probably. I count those as "human unless otherwise noted". Which is pretty much how they're usually treated, I think.

Well, on a different note, Beware My Stinger Tail mentions under its Real Life examples folder that "Some bees, wasps, and ants can spray formic acid from the end of their abdomens." This seems more like an example of Fartillery to me, since they're essentially farting the acid at their enemies, isn't it?

Not sure how it's actually done, biologically speaking.

What's more odd is that they just didn't mention the obvious example of the trope: the actual stinger. Which is also venomous.

Ants, at the very least, do shoot the acid from their anuses — or, more accurately, from an "acidopore" that is located right next to the actual anal orifice (to which I would say "same difference).

And yeah, it's odd that the venomous stings aren't mentioned. Maybe the editors thought it was so obvious that they assumed it was already mentioned?

edited 3rd Aug '16 6:44:12 PM by MarqFJA

So there's been an Edit War going on in WesternAnimation.The Killing Joke regarding a Rape Discretion Shot entry, which I reported to Ask the Tropers. The discussion about whether the example counts or not ran rather long, so the decision has been made to bring it here rather than clog up ATT. Everyone seems to agree that the example as written was a bad one; the revised version currently up for discussion is:

• Rape Discretion Shot: After shooting Barbara, the Joker unbuttons her blouse in a predatory manner just before the scene ends. She is later found by the police in a "state of undress."

I will attempt to summarize the salient conversation points and rely on the individual tropers to correct me if I'm misunderstanding or misrepresenting their views:

Several tropers have attempted to cite Word of God to "prove" that no rape took place, however no one has been able to produce a direct quote or other authoritative source to this effect. Bruce Timm has gone on record saying that it is his interpretation that no rape took place, but he frames it as just that: his interpretation, not definitive canon. Additionally, Bruce Timm is neither the original writer of the story (that's Alan Moore) nor the writer of the animated adaptation (that's Brian Azzarello), so I would argue that this counts as Word of Saint Paul at most; Bruce Timm is an executive producer of an adaptation with only indirect influence on the particulars of the story.

Other tropers have cited Death of the Author to say that regardless of Word of God, Saint Paul, Dante, or Fred down the street, we have to judge by what we the audience actually see in the film. I tend to agree with that in general, but in this particular case it's kind of a moot point because we have no definitive Word of God to cite anyway, unless someone can link to a better source than anyone has so far found.

Still other tropers have argued that because the extent of Joker's crime is an ambiguous plot point, it shouldn't count. To this I say that roughly 90% of the examples of Rape Discretion Shot fail that burden of proof. In The Shawshank Redemption, for example, it is never definitively stated by the characters or narration that Andy Dufresne was raped. The narration doesn't say, "...and then the Sisters took turns forcibly penetrating Andy Dufresne's anus with their penises." The narration says (direct quote), "Every so often, Andy would show up with fresh bruises. The Sisters kept at him - sometimes he was able to fight 'em off, sometimes not. And that's how it went for Andy." The film uses euphemism and relies on the audience to fill in the blanks.

That's typical of most examples, and the definition of Rape Discretion Shot specifically allows for such ambiguity. From the description: "In works with more gritty realism, violence will be depicted (hitting the victim, knocking her down), and perhaps some of the victim's clothing may be seen torn and/or removed before the action leaves the scene. ...Because the event is not completely shown, the audience can become confused as to whether the crime actually took place, and to what extent."

Still OTHER tropers say that since Joker unambiguously committed sexual assault by violently assaulting Barbara, removing her clothes, and photographing her without her consent, the example applies whether or not we assume that he committed penetrative rape because Tropes Are Flexible.

Did I miss anything?

edited 4th Aug '16 11:03:40 AM by HighCrate

tl;dr:

• Is sexual assault enough to count for Rape Discretion Shot given Tropes Are Flexible?
• If not, is audiences' interpretation of a potentially ambiguous scene as rape enough for Rape Discretion Shot?

Personally, I lean towards yes for the former, but no for the latter. I think drawing a precise definition of rape is a whole can of works that this site really doesn't need to open up, and "sexual assault" is broad, but relevant enough that it shouldn't be an issue. Basically, my internal judgment is "Would it be on Law And Order SVU or vanilla Law And Order? If the former, then it'd qualify."

For the second question, I don't think it would because then we're getting into audience reactions by definition. And, quite frankly, audiences are dumb and can/will gleefully misinterpret things.

I've changed my mind about the Joker's actions being enough enough to count as this trope, but I'd support it only if it sticks to what we know or we can reasonably assume happened, which is that he cripples her, strips her, photographs her and holds her hostage. I'm not in favor of speculating that the Joker went any further than that.

There is additional material added to the film that would imply rape. In one scene, Batman is interrogating a number of prostitutes that tell him the Joker would always stop by after breaking out to "have a good time". When Batman asks why the Joker isn't around in this particular instance, the prostitutes suggest that the Joker "found himself another girl". This scene was not in the source material, and the addition of this scene fulfills two purposes: to establish that the Joker has a strong sex drive whenever he breaks out, and to imply that the Joker raped Barbara.