Needs Help: Monster.Disney

Total posts: [74]
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The Special Efforts thread for Complete Monster has determined that The Mad Doctor doesn't qualify for the trope after all. However, the page image of him is still there, and I did recall that you cannot insta-pull an image based upon not being an example. The thread did similarly conclude that it's got to be replaced, and I heard one of the suggestions being that of Claude Frollo.

EDIT: Well, I see it's been pulled now... so we're left with looking into a possible replacement then.

edited 5th Oct '12 9:23:29 AM by EarlOfSandvich

I now go by Graf von Tirol.
2 SeptimusHeap5th Oct 2012 09:28:31 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
Previous image:

What are the suggestions?

The one where Frollo attempts to throw baby Quasimodo to the well.

edited 5th Oct '12 9:58:15 AM by Krystoff

4 ShadowHog5th Oct 2012 09:37:24 AM from Earth , Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
Aren't there scenes in the movie where Frollo's touching Esmerelda in a place or in a way that makes her feel uncomfortable (that's NO good)? Like, just before he tries to burn her on a pyre? I could be misremembering.

edited 5th Oct '12 9:37:53 AM by ShadowHog

I support the image of the baby being held over a well; I think it illustrates his evilness more than just a picture of him grinning sinisterly would.

[up] Thats the one I was talking about.
7 SeptimusHeap5th Oct 2012 10:03:42 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
That barely looks like a baby, and it will look even worse at wiki size I'd imagine.
Another possibility that I see, is Sykes strangling Fagin with the car window.
Here are some images of Frollo looking evil.

But my vote still goes to the baby and the well.

edited 5th Oct '12 2:23:48 PM by Camberf

[up] The picture with the baby is a good idea, but I really did like the fourth image here, particularly with the flames in the background.

The only other picture among those I'd go for among those is that of him lusting on Esmerelda. The other images don't really tell it...

edited 6th Oct '12 10:46:19 AM by EarlOfSandvich

I now go by Graf von Tirol.
Yeah, I kind of liked the one with the main characters hanging off the side of the tower, too.
12 Willbyr5th Oct 2012 05:42:52 PM from North Little Rock, AR , Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
9.4 - 9.6 are good, but don't have quite as much impact as the baby one.
Seeking for Light
The problem with the baby one is that it's rather hard to tell it's a baby unless you know what's going on. Although I suppose we could always use the caption for that.
14 flamemario125th Oct 2012 10:52:47 PM from Malaysia. , Relationship Status: Mu
How about this? With its caption saying: Don't trust his smile.

edited 5th Oct '12 10:53:37 PM by flamemario12

15 SeptimusHeap6th Oct 2012 01:46:22 AM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
14 & most Frollo images: Complete Monster is not just "evil"; it's "monstrously evil", which is why most images there are weak.

I really think that if I saw an image of Frollo dangling a cloth bundle over a well as the image for the Disney section of the Complete Monster trope, I could put two and two together and assume that it's a baby he's holding. But we can always add a caption, too. We just have to pick one. Maybe it could be what he says as he's about to do it: "This is an unholy demon; I'm sending it back to Hell, where it belongs." Or maybe a quote from Clopin from that same scene: "'Now here is a riddle, to guess if you can,' sing the bells of Notre Dame; 'Who is the monster and who is the man?' Sing the bells, bells, bells, bells, bells, bells, bells, bells, BELLS OF NOTRE DAME!"

I like the second one, but it may be too long.
17 Willbyr6th Oct 2012 11:11:33 AM from North Little Rock, AR , Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
I did a test resize on the "Frollo + well" pic and at wiki size and no cropping, Frollo's facial features are all but invisible.

edited 6th Oct '12 11:12:07 AM by Willbyr

Hmmm, maybe that image won't work then. Maybe this one would be better. You can see his smile as he's about to cut the heroes down, that may be enough.

The thing is, it's hard to find an image that conveys the truly monstrous nature of certain villains; the Film and Anime pages achieve this by having pictures of a character threatening a child, something often associated with an unsympathetic character. It's hard to find images like that it Disney properties because, well, it's Disney. They can only go so far. It may be hard to find an appropriate image of Frollo, but it won't be any easier to find one of any other Complete Monster from a Disney show or movie. Anyone who knows Frollo would know that he deserves to be on this page as much as or more than any other Disney character, and it wouldn't be the first Complete Monster page image to not entirely illustrate the character's nature; just look at the one for Web Original. I say we either pick one of him that looks good on the page, or we leave it as is.
19 SeptimusHeap6th Oct 2012 01:39:26 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
Wow, that Web Original image is surely poor.
Threatening a child seems like good shorthand for "complete monster". Anything else?

(And yeah that WO image is awful.)
Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel.
Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.
I agree with pulling the WO page as well. The caption doesn't make it better, implying the "Nightmare Fuel = Complete Monster" scenario we're fighting.

Would a cropped picture of Frollo dangling the infant Quasimodo with intent to drown work?
I now go by Graf von Tirol.
22 SeptimusHeap6th Oct 2012 03:36:21 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
Yes, if infant is recognizable. Also, Monster.Web Original discussion goes here
23 AnotherDuck6th Oct 2012 04:23:19 PM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
In light of the discussion of the above mentioned page, I don't think any suggested image here is enough to illustrate the trope. None of them say irredeemably evil (or complete monster, if you will).
Check out my fanfiction!
Throwing a baby down a well isn't evil enough for you?
You have to know there is a baby in the bundle. It doesn't look like it.
Becky: Who are you? The Mysterious Stranger: An angel.
Huck: What's your name? The Mysterious Stranger: Satan.

Total posts: 74
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