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Spiral Energy vs Instrumentality:

Revy Gonna Give It To Ya
[up]Same with Rebuild, AT Fields are used offensively all the time. Look at how Beast Mode!Unit-01 flattened Zurael.

edited 4th Oct '12 5:46:35 PM by Scherzo09

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@ Scherzo 09

Yes, they are, but in a makeshift fashion. The drills that are the perfect weapon form of Spiral Energy are purely offensive - they're not meant to defend, they're meant to tear through anything that gets in the way of the user. The spiral shape and name of the concept itself is symbolic of how life keeps going round in circles seemingly for no reason at all, but bit by bit actually evolves further and further - the faster they spin, the faster they evolve. Furthermore, Spiral Energy won't work or be generated by people in despair or who act in despair. Everyone in Eva is mentally unstable/insane/despairing - it grants them enormous power, but against Spiral Energy - literally the Will to Live/Win - that power is meaningless. Nothing can defeat anyone with absolute determination, especially not those with nothing to fight/live for.

edited 4th Oct '12 5:58:16 PM by BloodRavenFan

 28 Demongodofchaos 2, Thu, 4th Oct '12 5:56:42 PM from Reality Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
I am become death, Destroyer of worlds
Yep.

Of course I still think Gurren Lagann deserved a sequel of sorts.

Maybe Studio Khara can do it someday after the Rebuild of Evangelion movies are done.
I don't fight for good, and I don't fight for evil, I JUST FIGHT!

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@Demongodofchaos 2

Personally, I think the ending of the story is good enough (especially compared to NGE). At the end, Simon's mastery of Spiral Energy is supposedly enough to resurrect everyone who died fighting the Anti-Spirals. However Simon rejects this, saying they would only get in the way of the future. His point was the same as the whole point of Spiral Energy - to let go of the past, and move on. Change. Evolve. Become better than before. Not to perpetuate a current state of existence (Anti-Spirals) or to bring back a previous existence (resurrecting the dead). To attempt either would render Spiral Energy meaningless or unusable.
Revy Gonna Give It To Ya
I think this still is a kinda bullshit argument because the shows have completely different cosmologies.
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@ Scherzo 09

More because its so obvious except to others that Spiral Energy is Beyondthe Impossible embodied and pretty much nothing else in the history of mecha anime (thus far) comes close.
 32 Demongodofchaos 2, Thu, 4th Oct '12 6:55:23 PM from Reality Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
I am become death, Destroyer of worlds
Getter Rays are still stronger, because the end product of it, the Getter Emperor, absorbs and combines with EVERYTHING. All caps on Everything for a reason. That includes not just other mecha, but planets, stars, galaxies and even the pilots, except for ryouma.

In fact, it's implied it would absorb the universe and other universes as well.

edited 4th Oct '12 6:56:39 PM by Demongodofchaos2

I don't fight for good, and I don't fight for evil, I JUST FIGHT!

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@Demongodofchaos 2

Let's stay on-topic, shall we? And in any case, I can't comment on that, seeing as I've never watched Getter Robo.
 34 Demongodofchaos 2, Thu, 4th Oct '12 7:21:52 PM from Reality Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
I am become death, Destroyer of worlds
Just comparing the Original to it's sucessor, is all.
I don't fight for good, and I don't fight for evil, I JUST FIGHT!

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@Demongodofchaos 2

Then allow me to take your word for it.grin
 36 KSPAM, Fri, 5th Oct '12 12:10:29 AM from on the ground Relationship Status: In another castle
BEST. PRINCESS. EVER
@Scherzo: Not necessarily. If we leave out all other factors, it has been shown that if you pump enough energy into an AT Field, eventually it will break. What is Spiral Energy good for? Making a fuckton of free energy that only increases exponentially the more you yell and punch things in the face.

In the end, it comes down to this. Even backed by the user's will, we've seen AT Fields fail. We've never seen someone run out of Spiral Energy. Ever. It's an unlimited resource to everyone not languishing in the emo pit.
Team? You mean cannon fodder? — neobowman

Goodfae: a mafia web serial
Revy Gonna Give It To Ya
[up]But you run the risk of ending the universe if you try to.

Again though, it's kinda absurd to compare mutually exclusive cosmologies.
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@ Scherzo 09

Yes it might...but that was a risk the Humans were willing to risk, and even if it did happen, knowing Simon's legacy, they would fight the Spiral Nemesis and WIN.

Personally, I subscribe to the theory that the prologue of Gurren Lagann was an Alternate Universe scenario where the Anti-Spirals never 'chained' the Spiral Races, the Spiral Nemesis had occurred ("Our enemies are the stars themselves, huh?"), and the Spiral Races were fighting not the Anti-Spirals, but the Spiral Nemesis. And it looked like they would win - they were preparing to fire a weapon that was implied to use Spiral Energy not to create matter, but to destroy it.

@KSPAM

Emo pit? Good call...reminds of right after Kamina's death when Simon was all down and obsessed with revenge and couldn't generate/use Spiral Energy at all. Only after he moved on and simply fought to live/win could he use/generate Spiral Energy again.

edited 5th Oct '12 3:42:01 AM by BloodRavenFan

 39 Ernie, Fri, 5th Oct '12 4:30:52 AM from Memphis
Not a muppet.
(A little late for this one, but) on the subject of TTGL mecha not having defenses, they do. They believe in being tough, they have armor and such. They just don't have active defenses, 'cause why take the time to block his attack when you could just...I dunno, hit him? Or attack his attack so hard that you kill it and fuck him up behind it?
Should've checked the list.
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@Ernie

Ah, yes. Thanks for the correction. But note that I never said they were defenseless, rather lacked defense systems - the latter being the active defenses you mentioned.
 41 KSPAM, Fri, 5th Oct '12 6:03:29 AM from on the ground Relationship Status: In another castle
BEST. PRINCESS. EVER
TTGL pilots have defenses in the same way berserkers do. They're no more "durable" than a normal human, but they're so blinded by what is no doubt gallons of dopamine and adrenaline flowing through their veins that they can completely ignore pain. The only exception to this rule is Kamina that one time, and you can chalk that up to "LOL SPIRAL ENERGY".
Team? You mean cannon fodder? — neobowman

Goodfae: a mafia web serial
 42 Ernie, Fri, 5th Oct '12 7:00:24 PM from Memphis
Not a muppet.
[up][up]Hah, point, point.

[up]And yeah, I think that one bit against Viral is the only example of protagonists using active defense in the series. Unless you were thinking of something else.
Should've checked the list.
Princess of Zeon
Just pointing this out, but even if the Spiral Nemesis happens, Simon and Co. (or their successors) probably, no, would definitely crush it without prejudice. If you can create matter (something which is supposed to be impossible), then you can destroy it as well.
He's right, isn't he Char? Then you should help me revive the Zabi Dynasty! Afterwards we can think about the world together!
 44 Enlong, Sat, 13th Jul '13 10:41:55 PM from The Underground Facility Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
I'm not sure if you can reverse Spirl Energy effects like that.
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Princess of Zeon
I meant they would just destroy the excess matter.
He's right, isn't he Char? Then you should help me revive the Zabi Dynasty! Afterwards we can think about the world together!
 46 GAP, Sat, 13th Jul '13 11:00:29 PM Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, she is imaginary
Formerly G.G.
You know Gurren Lagann is actually a lot more crapsack than Eva when consider Spiral Nemesis.

edited 13th Jul '13 11:01:22 PM by GAP

“One must always improve one's self.”
 47 Enlong, Sat, 13th Jul '13 11:03:13 PM from The Underground Facility Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
Well, they're good at blowing stuff up, but I'm not sure if they're that good at blowing stuff up, to the point of annihilating the particles.

Yeah, Spiral Nemesis is a pretty bleak idea.

You know what it would be totally useful in, though? Madoka Magica.

edited 13th Jul '13 11:03:23 PM by Enlong

I have a message from another time...
Princess of Zeon
Oh yes they can. Did ya all forget the motto of Team Dai-Gurren?

"Kick reason to the curb and go beyond impossible! That's the Team Dai-Gurren way!"
He's right, isn't he Char? Then you should help me revive the Zabi Dynasty! Afterwards we can think about the world together!
 49 Enlong, Sat, 13th Jul '13 11:07:17 PM from The Underground Facility Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
I suppose, yeah. I do, however, like the way the end of he series had them discussing how to use it responsibly, so as to never threaten Spiral Nemesis in the fist place. Just personally.
I have a message from another time...
Princess of Zeon
Yeah, they could defeat/destroy the Spiral Nemesis, but it would more responsible and more right to limit themselves (but not to the extent the Anti-Spiral did) so as to prevent it from happening in the first place. Which is probably why Simon didn't try to resurrect Nia and the others as it would be an act of extreme hubris that would set a bad precedent which might lead to the Spiral Nemesis.

On another note, I agree with an earlier post that the prologue of the series (that really awesome battle that ends with what looks like the entire universe/multiverse going up in flames) is an AU showing a battle between Team Dai-Gurren (one wherein they did bring Nia and the others back) and the Spiral Nemesis.

edited 13th Jul '13 11:13:22 PM by AdmiralValerian

He's right, isn't he Char? Then you should help me revive the Zabi Dynasty! Afterwards we can think about the world together!
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