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Unclear Description: Electric Instant Gratification get usage counts

Cannot figure out that this means. Possibly:
  • 1. "Something good happens when you get shocked". The name and related tropes contradict that.
  • 2. "Torture via electricity." If the result is good, then it's unlikely to be torture. Also article is too narrow for this.

What is it?
 
 2 DRCEQ, Wed, 3rd Oct '12 12:10:46 AM Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
MOVE, B****! GET OUT THE WAY!
It is listed as a subtrope to a trope about forcing people to experience genuine happiness against their will...
3DS FC: 2981-6375-5798
 3 lu 127, Wed, 3rd Oct '12 1:03:58 AM from the Forest of Thorns Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not

This post was thumped by the Merciless Hammer of Doom
小さく揺れた向日葵
I thought it was perfectly clear that the trope is about direct electrical stimulation of the brain's pleasure centers, whether on purpose or accidentally. There's some need for a cleanup with unrelated "too kinky to torture" examples.
 
 5 Japanese Teeth, Wed, 3rd Oct '12 9:54:48 AM from Meinong's jungle Relationship Status: Mu
A dandy Betelgusian, in space.
From what I can see, it's basically "any time electricity is used to stimulate someone's pleasure centers", whether it's intentional or not doesn't seem to matter, hence why it overlaps with Too Kinky to Torture. Someone could attempt Electric Torture and end up running into this trope instead.
[up]Right, there's overlap, but somebody enjoying electroshock doesn't mean it's automatically this trope. For example, the Futurama example has Leela associating the shock collar with the pleasure of inflicting violence, so it's not this trope.
 
 7 Xtifr, Wed, 3rd Oct '12 2:21:39 PM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
The description could use some clarification, but I think Escher nailed it. We do need to get rid of the examples that don't fit, like the Futurama one.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 8 Another Duck, Wed, 3rd Oct '12 3:32:33 PM from Stockholm Relationship Status: Chocolate!
No, the other one.
If there's electrocution, and they get off of the pain it causes, I think it's a different trope from getting off because it stimulates their pleasure directly. Otherwise it's just electrocution and pleasure, with no specific relation to each other.
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 9 Xtifr, Wed, 3rd Oct '12 4:03:30 PM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
Right, someone who gets turn on by Electric Torture probably gets turned on by other forms of torture, so that's Too Kinky to Torture, and not this trope.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 10 Another Duck, Wed, 3rd Oct '12 5:34:34 PM from Stockholm Relationship Status: Chocolate!
No, the other one.
Does that mean all anime examples are wrong? As far as I know, they're all about masochism.

Personally I think Too Kinky to Torture should be removed from the description. While there may be an overlap, having it on the page encourages misuse.
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Ecce Homo Superior
[up]I agree. This trope isn't Too Kinky to Torture.
(it's David Bowie)
 12 Willbyr, Thu, 4th Oct '12 10:09:00 AM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
I guess the question is, do we want to make Too Kinky to Torture a supertrope and have different subtropes relating to specific methods, or just roll the "Alice likes it when Bob shocks her" examples from EIG into TK 2 T?

edited 4th Oct '12 10:10:58 AM by Willbyr

 13 Another Duck, Thu, 4th Oct '12 10:59:06 AM from Stockholm Relationship Status: Chocolate!
No, the other one.
Too Kinky to Torture is not a supertrope of Electric Instant Gratification. It's not about torture. It's about stimulating the brain positively.

We can perhaps split off a subtrope that way, though.

edited 4th Oct '12 11:00:19 AM by AnotherDuck

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 14 Willbyr, Tue, 9th Oct '12 6:26:41 AM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
Is the TRS page link not showing up on the trope page for anyone else?
 15 Septimus Heap, Tue, 9th Oct '12 9:12:51 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
To me, it's an Image Pickin' thread.

 16 Another Duck, Tue, 9th Oct '12 10:42:30 AM from Stockholm Relationship Status: Chocolate!
No, the other one.
Well, there is an IP thread too, but that's all I see on the page itself. No link to this thread.

edited 9th Oct '12 10:42:56 AM by AnotherDuck

Check out my fanfiction!
 17 Septimus Heap, Tue, 9th Oct '12 10:47:17 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
I've fixed it.

 18 lu 127, Wed, 12th Dec '12 10:08:02 AM from the Forest of Thorns Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
Tick-tock.
小さく揺れた向日葵
 19 Xtifr, Wed, 12th Dec '12 1:51:19 PM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
I think the description could use a little expansion/clarification, and obviously we need to remove bad examples, but that's really all this seems to require.

eta: how about this:
Electricity is versatile stuff. While it can burn you, it can also be used to stimulate nerve cells to give feelings of actual pleasure. One common form, especially in Science Fiction, involves using small amounts of current applied directly to the "pleasure centers" of the brain.

The concept of the "pleasure center" was based on research on rats done in the 1950's, and those studies have been partially discredited since, but there is still some Truth in Television here. Scientists developed an orgasm device for women by accident when the doctor inserted a spinal cord electrode he was using to relieve the woman's chronic pain into the wrong place and got an unexpected reaction. Although further tests showed that less than 2% of women would actually get that effect from it.

Although the effect may happen by accident, this is not the same as Too Kinky to Torture. This is about electricity causing actual, physical pleasure, not just pain that someone happens to enjoy.

May be used to try to brainwash someone, as direct brain stimulation was found to be extremely addictive—at least in rats. In such cases, it's closely related to Getting Smilies Painted on Your Soul.

edited 13th Dec '12 7:09:23 PM by Xtifr

"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 20 Xtifr, Thu, 13th Dec '12 11:10:18 AM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
Bump. Yes or no on the new description? Anyone have an opinion? I don't want to act unilaterally here, but the current description really does seem too vague and easy to misinterpret.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
Good to mention that it is specifically a science fiction trope. It is more specific than Smilies on the Soul—it is specifically about doing so by using electrical stimulation of part of the brain. (And as the description notes—this is documented to work on rats in real life. On humans, not so reliably.)

Might want to mention Science Marches On—this used to be a lot more plausible than it is now (and I believe isn't totally discredited yet, but I Am Not A Neurologist.)
 
 22 Septimus Heap, Thu, 13th Dec '12 2:14:35 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
^I'd rather not say it's specifically an "[Genre] Trope".

 23 Xtifr, Thu, 13th Dec '12 7:02:24 PM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
[up]Yeah, me neither.

I also don't want to limit it to direct-to-the-brain stimulation, so I tried to leave that part open. Don't know how well I did.

eta: I did make a pothole to Science Marches On.

edited 13th Dec '12 7:10:02 PM by Xtifr

"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 24 Xtifr, Sat, 15th Dec '12 3:52:16 PM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
Bump. Last call for comments on my draft. If nobody objects or raises any issues by tomorrow, I'll go ahead and install it.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 25 Xtifr, Sun, 16th Dec '12 3:40:58 PM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
Checking the examples, a lot of them are simply Too Kinky to Torture. This is going to be noticeably smaller after a cleanup. I don't think any of the Anime/Manga examples on the page will survive (although one of them, Rosario + Vampire, is so vague that I'm really not sure what it is).
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
Total posts: 27
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