Merge and Rename (Alt Titles Crowner 2013-01-15): I Will Definitely Protect You

Total posts: [137]
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Looks too much of a Stock Phrase. Many of these examples are "character says this phrase to somebody". The examples that do provide context don't really have anything in common besides saying this phrase. The description actually says how this depends on context, and that the phrase can convey different meanings. So basically, the examples there don't convey the same meaning.
So there's two issues that need addressing.

  1. Is this a trope?

  2. Is there abuse that warrants renaming?

I personally say "Yes" to the first concern. It's very much a trope. It's a Japanese cultural phenomenon that just happens to be kicked off by a stock phrase. It has several purposes (mostly romantic fantasy) and acts as wish-fulfillment for both male audiences and female audiences.

As for the second point, if we named it to something like Passionate Profession Of Protection or whatever, that would reduce it just looking like a Stock Phrase.
The problem with the examples is that it lists every instance of somebody saying "I will definitely protect you" regardless of context or meaning. The Naruto example mentions how he says this to pretty much everyone. If this is to be a trope, it needs to have a more meaningful qualification than just a string of words being said. Quite a few examples are Zero Context as well.

edited 25th Sep '12 11:32:15 PM by ThatHuman

4 Noaqiyeum27th Sep 2012 12:41:46 PM from empty rooms and silent halls , Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The it-thingy
[up][up] It looks like a Stock Phrase already.
Sing a song of sickness

A socketful of eyes
5 SeptimusHeap27th Sep 2012 12:46:13 PM from Laniakea , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
50 inbounds. Not much. Can't find much on Google about this. And it's likely a Stock Phrase.
Dragon Writer
You mean, likely just a Stock Phrase.
I don't think this should have a page. It would have more meaning to cover protectiveness as a character trait (like somebody protecting their Protectorate) rather than "scenes where a character says they intend to protect somebody".
Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk
Looks like a Stock Phrase to me, as well.

edited 28th Sep '12 1:28:26 AM by DoktorvonEurotrash

It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird
From the description, the misunderstanding sounds like it might be a trope.
Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk
[up]That's a good point. Maybe we should repurpose the page to be more about the misunderstanding.
It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird
[up] If we do that, most of the examples would have to go. Most of the examples make no mention of a romantic misunderstanding actually happening. Basically, the example section would need to be cut down almost entirely.

edited 28th Sep '12 7:05:22 AM by ThatHuman

The description isn't just about the misunderstanding. It's about the romantic connotations within the entire situation.

Compare Sleep Cute.
[up] Yeah, but the examples are mostly "character X says this at some point", without really telling us whether it's in a romantic context or otherwise. Presumably, if I look at the pages linked in the examples, I might find out whether these are romantic by learning who the characters are, but the information I need to understand these examples should already exist on this page itself.

edited 28th Sep '12 10:12:05 AM by ThatHuman

14 nrjxll28th Sep 2012 11:47:08 AM , Relationship Status: Not war
This page reads like a stock phrase for a situation that might be tropable, but it's not about the situation itself.
That's my point. Make the trope about the situation. Not the phrase.
Isn't the trope just a romantic example/stock phrase variation of I Will Protect Her?
From what I can tell, I Will Protect Her is about a guy who actually protects a girl/woman, whether or not he declares it.

What Zettai Ni Mamoru is about is the Japanese formality that has severe romantic connotations. For example, I Will Not Forgive You is basically like saying, "I will not rest until you are dead" in English and "Please accept my feelings" is basically "I love you so much". Japan has a real passive-aggressive attitude towards extremes and often creates cultural tropes that censor or soften those extremes, only to become MORE powerful than the things they censor. (For example, panty shots and tentacles were meant to censor vaginas and penises respectively, but now they're both more popular fetishes than the things they were supposed to censor.)
If this is gonna be reworked into a particular romantic situation, the examples have to pretty much be cleaned up. Most of them don't tell us what context they're in.

Like this one:

  • Kenshin gives several of them, but the biggest is to Tomoe.
—> Kenshin: The happiness you lost during this chaos, this time... I will protect it for you.

Yeah, just reading that, I have no idea whether this is in a romantic context. It says that line is the "biggest" instance for the character, but it doesn't tell me anything of the relationship between these two.

Even worse are examples that are only "character X says this to somebody"

—> "If anything ever does happen, I'll protect her so it's 0k"
19 nrjxll28th Sep 2012 09:30:33 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
[up][up]So this trope should be limited solely to Japanese media?
[up] That's a good idea. In the all times I've seen it used it was in anime.

Also, a name change sounds reasonable. We have a rule about dialogue named tropes anyway. If the trope has low usage than it can be renamed to something that doesn't sound like a stock quote. "Passionate Profession Of Protection" has the same meaning as the current name, is not dialogue, and has Added Alliterative Appeal.
21 AnotherDuck29th Sep 2012 01:23:27 AM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
I wouldn't say it's a good idea to limit it to Japanese works as a rule. Limit it to its actual meaning, and if there are no western works that uses it, fine. If there is a western work that uses it, why not add it as an example?
Check out my fanfiction!
22 nrjxll29th Sep 2012 01:42:39 AM , Relationship Status: Not war
[up]My feeling is that, since it seems to be stemming from a specific element of Japanese culture, prohibiting Western examples would go a long way towards clarifying it.
Even if we limit it based on cultural origin, we still need to keep out any examples that are just "character says this line". Seems that, even in Japanese media, this line can be used withou romantic connotation. (see that Naruto example on the page, for one thing)
I see absolutely no good reason to limit it to Japanese works, if we're going to have this as a trope and not just a line on Japanese Stock Phrases.
25 johnnye3rd Oct 2012 07:42:12 AM from Brighton, UK , Relationship Status: If it's you, it's okay
[up][up][up]Given the amount of cross-fertilisation between Japanese and modern Western media, that sounds like a silly idea to me. Even if this hasn't popped up in a Western work yet, that's not to say it theoretically couldn't.

If it's genuinely unique to Japanese culture, the examples will demonstrate that as long as the trope is well-defined. Still, the description can always make a point of it being a Japanese thing, it just shouldn't arbitrarily limit the examples based on that.

edited 3rd Oct '12 7:54:14 AM by johnnye

"We don't harm little girls in Dorne."
— Oberyn Martell

Alternative Titles: I Will Protect Her
15th Jan '13 8:12:17 AM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.
At issue:
The previous crowner voted to merge I Will Definitely Protect You and I Will Protect Her, with a new, non-dialog title. Please propose and vote for new titles to represent the combined trope, which is about a person swearing to protect another person.

Total posts: 137
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