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THE ULTIMATE RPG PROJECT:

 126 danna 45, Mon, 24th Sep '12 9:29:37 PM from Wagnaria Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Ti TS SC on Steam when
Um, sorry for double posting and not dropping in the chat lately. Haven't found the time to play much. I might not play the next game as well(Wizardry 1, a shame). Damn, I really wish I had more free time. Really sorry, guys. Don't count me out though. I'm still in.

Oh, and if you could, please just put in anything you know about the game into this doc(Controls, basic backstory, basic tips, etc):

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zZjSSBC1cGs48OivR7AOI283Tz0_bHrzZsR2VB3zaYY/edit
"And you must be Jonathan Joestar!" - Sue
 127 Steendy, Tue, 25th Sep '12 9:44:21 AM from where my heart desires
The King of Dreamers
Tarsen, Lemurian, Raz and me are already done with Ultima I. As Danna doesn't have much time, we'll count him out for these games. I don't know the status on Delvarian, Fokias and Vanishing. We'll wait 2 days for the group to catch up to us before we start Wizardry.

I'll make a review about Ultima later, I liked it a lot. Lemurian and Raz will talk a little about the game too. Don't know about Tarsen.

Anyway, I think we talked too little on the game this time on the thread and remained only on the chat. Maybe we should talk about important stuff on the thread too.

And Danna, When you have the time, try to catch up on Ultima I and Wizardry. They are good games. We'll try to help you on the Faqs thing grin

edited 25th Sep '12 9:45:25 AM by Steendy

 128 danna 45, Tue, 25th Sep '12 10:06:17 AM from Wagnaria Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Ti TS SC on Steam when
Yeahp, thanks a lot bro! Sorry about not having the time to play and all. I really look forward to when I can catch-up with you guys. How long did you guys took to complete Ultima 1?

oh, and just to clarify: Expect me back before Wizardry 1 ends...unless you guys will take only an hour or two with that. Either way, I'm definitely coming back way before we start on Dragon Quest 1. Ain't missing that one.
"And you must be Jonathan Joestar!" - Sue
 129 Lemurian, Tue, 25th Sep '12 2:25:37 PM from Touhou fanboy attic Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
Ultima I...what to say, what to say...

Well, it's certainly a fun game. Very hard and unintuitive, but still a lot of fun when you know what you're doing. Perhaps a bit too easy to exploit, but then you almost need that to be able to win without tons and tons of grinding for gold. I liked the space section, although it was kinda frustrating. After all the travelling around grinding Stats, it was nice to have that complete change of play mode. Though, again, unintuitive.

In a more historical perspective, I can see several elements that are to be reused, "fixed" and/or changed in the times that are to come. Like the looping world map as opposed to Akalabeth's enclosed one and the EXP and levelling system that pretty much does nothing.

It's more immersive than I thought it would be, and like Akalabeth, the dungeons really succeed in getting the feeling of a cramped and dangerous place (I played the GOG-version with the terrifying line-spiders, mind). Also the updated food and speed-system in place for the various vehicles really makes it feel that you're moving faster although you're technically not.

So, in conclusion, I had a lot of fun. But I don't think I'd have that much fun if I didn't have a walkthrough and a world map close by.
 130 Tarsen, Tue, 25th Sep '12 2:29:36 PM from somewhere or another. Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Hmmm~
the LINE SPIDERS oh god, the line spiders...

what, you think lines cant be scary? YOU WONT THINK THAT WHEN A LINESPIDER APPEARS THE FUCK OUT OF NOWHERE, CLIMBS OUT THE SCREEN AND BITES OFF YOUR FACE!

oh, ultima 1? s'okay. im glad the early entries in the series do not involve inventory management like it appears the later ones do. and are not click-a-thons with insanely limited vision (what ultima am i even talking about now...?)

edited 25th Sep '12 2:32:06 PM by Tarsen

Pro Tip: Spiders are not technically insects, but actually skeletons made of congealed hate.
 131 Steendy, Tue, 25th Sep '12 2:36:47 PM from where my heart desires
The King of Dreamers
And I'm done with Ultima I. Like Lemurian said: Awesome game! It expands upon everything Akalabeth has done. There are more monsters, more weapons (Freaking lasers), actual cities, different transportation vehicles, 8 quests and actual graphics on the overworld.

The method of gaining atributes was a little strange, what's with the grinding between sign posts. And you still had to wait till you leave the dungeon to gain HP. Well, now you can buy hp at least... Also, Food wasn't a problem this time, as you didn't lose any in dungeons.

For its age, I found the game to be too easy. I mean, you could get the best weapon right at the start at the Pillars of the Argonauts. Then, you could just grind a little to get high stats and money for HP. The dungeons are also the same, so just choose one and kill the 4 quest monsters.

The space section was frustrating at first, but 5 tries later I was able to do a perfect run. Richard Garriot was really trying to do an epic adventure for its time, from the depths of Sosaria to deep space grin

Finally, the final boss battle was cool, not gonna spoiler it though.

We'll wait for the remaining ones of the group to finish Ultima so that we can begin Wizardry. 2 days is a good deadline. Be prepared everyone! smile

edited 25th Sep '12 2:37:59 PM by Steendy

Now that I really am finally done with it, it's time for...

THE TALE OF RAZGRIZ, THE HELL'S CONQUEROR SPACE GOD

Just kidding, not gonna do that. It'd take forever.

My thoughts on the game: The game more or less matched my expectations, I was expecting a better game than Akalabeth and I got just that. Of course I wasn't expecting the crazy mix of futuristic technology in a medieval setting, very amusing at least. xD

I liked the overworld, a nice improvement over Akalabeth in that it's not completely empty and useless. Fighting enemies there is fun but a bit too easy since enemies there are very weak. I guess it's nice it isn't a chore since it's the place where you spend most of the time grinding for gold and useless EXP. You really need a map to not get lost though and the game doesn't provide one.

The dungeon crawling...I actually liked it more in Akalabeth. I mean it was very nice that there weren't fake walls and traps everywhere and that the dungeons were actually finite but I didn't like the addition of forcefields and found very annoying how enemies from lower floors just do hundreds of damage with every attack. It's pretty inconsistent too. Enemies change every 2 floors and from what I observed, while the first 3 sets of enemies do very consistent damage, with some enemies doing 200 damage every single attack, the enemies at the very bottom tend to do pretty random damage, ranging from 20 to 200. That makes the enemies in the middle of the dungeon the most dangerous ones which is just odd, you end up fearing Mimics and Carrion crawlers more than the mighty Balrogs and Daemons. I'm glad that I didn't need to go to the dungeons a lot, I just went a few times in the beginning and once to the very end of one to complete all the quests( thus conquering the "Hole to Hades" and becoming Hell's conqueror!)

The space section was very fun. Probably the first game where you have first-person aerial battles of some sort, the first game with dogfighting =D But very primitive and flawed of course. I had way more problems with it than I expected. I kept landing my hyperjumps into suns or into the very middle of space stations. I must have died over 10 times. But after I got the hang of it, I couldn't stop. I continued until I cleared the whole galaxy and killed every single alien.

Dying was not much of an issue. Yes, you get a lot of penalties, but it's not that hard to work your way up back again and you don't have to start the whole game all over again like in Akalabeth. I had unfortunately met too many fucking gremlins in Hole to Hades and came back with just 5 food, starving to death at the door of the closest town going from 9999 HP back to 99 and losing all my weapons but by the time I got to the final boss I regained most of what I lost.

The OST was okay. It was what I expected from a game this old, fitting but forgettable. The best ones were the space theme and the final boss theme.

So overall I had fun with the game which means that I'll probably be able to tackle most of these other old and primitive RP Gs. Ready to move on to Wizardry I now.

edited 26th Sep '12 8:53:37 PM by RazgrizX

 
 133 Steendy, Thu, 27th Sep '12 4:13:45 AM from where my heart desires
The King of Dreamers
Here's the backstory of Wizardry Proving Grounds Of The Mad Overlord:

"The land of Llylgamyn is the basis of many legends. It is the center of commerce throughout the land, and home of the academy where some of the bravest warriors are trained. In it's early days it was a monarchy ruled by the royal family, but as time passed the power shifted to aristocrats and theocrats, and eventually the royal family became more symbolic then anything else.

Under a more democratic system, the High Council of Sages appointed an Overlord to govern over the kingdom. With that, the power of the royal family diminished almost completely. The Overlord was a former warrior of the realm, and a local hero. His name was Trebor. At first everything seemed well, but as time went by Trebor's thirst for power began to show. He began searching for ways to expand his rule. He learned of an ancient amulet held in a forgotten temple somewhere outside of the kingdom. Eventually, through unknown means he was able to find it's hidden location. He gathered his best men and sent them on a mission to retrieve this legendary artifact. They returned successful. Trebor, however, was not the only person who wanted this artifact. Only hours behind him in reaching it's original destination was the evil wizard Werdna (arch-enemy of Trebor). When Werdna discovered that someone had found the amulet before him he grew very angry. Using his magic he was able to discover it's new location. That evening the Wizard made his assault on Overlord's Castle. Making himself invisible he was able to sneak past Trebor's guards. He found the overlord sitting in his throne room with a group of sages studying the amulet. Werdna cast a powerful spell that made Trebor and everyone in his immediate vicinity frozen with fear. With Trebor unable to move, Werdna plucked the amulet right from his hands and left the castle.

Werdna knew that once the Trebor regained his senses he would be prime suspect. He couldn't return to his tower, he needed a new hiding place. That's when he was struck with a brilliant idea. Werdna decided to use to amulet to make a new home right beneath the city of Llylgamyn! There was enough underground mining activity already, he should go unnoticed. Upon the thought of this very plan, the amulet began to glow. Suddenly there was tremendous earthquake, and in a flash Werdna found himself in a giant ten level labyrinth in the ground below the city. Summoning monsters to be his allies Werdna explored his way to the lowest depths and made a home where he would be able to study the powers of the amulet undisturbed.

After losing the amulet and discovering the existence of the mysterious maze beneath his city, Trebor became unhinged. His madness grew daily, all he could think of was getting his amulet back. He called for the greatest warriors in the realm to enter the maze and find Werdna, but the monsters grew greater in numbers and they began to spread to even the highest depths of the maze.

A year after the discovery of the maze, Trebor had managed to secure the first four floors. Most of the warriors who tried to journey deeper were never seen again, those that were returned with their minds warped, speaking of demons and dark magic. Trebor ordered the passages to the deeper layers of the maze to be magically sealed, thus preventing these creatures from making their way to the town. He also ordered that traps be set on the first three layers. Upon completion, Trebor declared the maze his own personal proving grounds. New cadets enrolled in the training academy would be offered the opportunity to brave the maze. Those that could find the secret he had hidden for them would be rewarded. Trebor decided he could use the maze as a test, those that would be able to able to make their way to the fourth floor would be deemed worthy and told the truth about Werdna and the amulet. They would be given the chance to go deeper into the maze. If they could return with the amulet, they would be inducted as members of Trebor's Personal Guard.

It has been five years since the disappearance of the amulet, and this time it is your characters that have volunteered to challenge the maze.

This is where it all begins."

And here is a manual I found online: http://c64sets.com/set.html?id=44

There are 3 worthy versions of this game: The original apple II version, the nes version and the snes trilogy. Those wanting the best available version, go for the snes trilogy. It is completely translated by fans. I'm going to play the original. As the game is Nintendo Hard, those that are still playing Ultima I will be able to reach us pretty fast. Good Luck to you all...you'll need it evil grin

edited 27th Sep '12 4:21:19 AM by Steendy

 134 Lemurian, Thu, 27th Sep '12 6:26:04 AM from Touhou fanboy attic Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
Awesome! Yoko, Tor, Loke, Arthur, Caleb and Mel...MOVE OUT!
 135 Tarsen, Thu, 27th Sep '12 6:30:17 AM from somewhere or another. Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Hmmm~
having a hard time getting into wizardry. might be skipping these games.
Pro Tip: Spiders are not technically insects, but actually skeletons made of congealed hate.
Yeah, got home much sooner that expected, I think I should be able to finish ultima in the afternoon and catch up with you guys grin

 137 Steendy, Sat, 29th Sep '12 6:56:42 AM from where my heart desires
The King of Dreamers
Played Wizardry for a few hours and I'm struggling a lot tongue The game is too fucking hard, even with save states. I've grinded till level 7, which took like 4 hours, only to die and screw up my save states. It would be an awesome game if not for the herculian determination you need to get pass only the 1st floor.

I'm gonna play it more, not giving up! waii

Also, I suggest you to grind on Murphy Ghosts, on the 1st floor. They are level 10 monsters who gives you lots of exp and do little damage. Try to find them.

 138 Lemurian, Sat, 29th Sep '12 7:47:41 AM from Touhou fanboy attic Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
I'm playing Wizardry too, working on the SNES-version (and abusing save-states like there's no tomorrow). And I think it's a bit easier than the NES and Apple-version, based on Raz and Steendy's experiences. tongue
 139 Steendy, Sat, 29th Sep '12 8:21:23 AM from where my heart desires
The King of Dreamers
I've raised my characters to level 6 in under an hour now. They are still Made of Plasticine though. Guess you need to save money to get the best equipment, keep raising your levels till you get confortable in battles, abuse save states at every battle and pray you are not killed.

YES, I've beaten floor 1!! Wow, and it's only the first one of 10.

Well, it's really amazing how complex this game is for a 1981 game and how fucking hard it is.

After half an hour playing it, I just knew that I was going to need to use savestates unless I wanted to spend months trying to beat this game. It's all because the game doesn't have a proper save function. It's weird that it's actually the complete opposite of what you'd expect, instead of being a game where if you get a game over you'd have to start from the beginning, it's actually a game that saves with every single action you do, so any single mistake you make will be there to haunt you forever, you can't unmake by loading or something like that, you can't load. The game is one single "save file" from the moment you start playing to the moment you beat the game or give up and you have no control whatsoever of that. There isn't a proper game over either because of that because you can create as many characters as you want and if a group of them dies, you can just try another one, so you're not actually pre-set group of cadets destined to beat Werdna or something like that, you actually control the whole academy of trainees.

To make it even worse, the game is VERY luck based. The worst thing so far would be leveling up. You can actually LOSE stats from leveling up! What RPG can make you weaker as you progress? The only thing that can't drop is HP but getting only 1 HP is almost useless anyway. Imagine playing this game in 1981 without savestates, you'd have to rely constantly on luck to get characters that don't suck completely after grinding them and your characters at level 1 are embarassingly weak, they get killed by any monster of floor 1 that aren't the ridiculous bubbly slimes. With savestates though, it's tolerable and I'm having fun with it for now and it's not like you need to save every step you take, saving just at the town has been enough for me so far.

After you become decent fighters, the worst enemies of floor 1 are TREASURE CHESTS. Yeah, and I don't mean mimics either, treasure chests with loot that when you try to open them, they blow you up, paralyze you, poison you, shoot you in the face with a crossbow, etc. Once in a blue moon you'll find a trapless chest. My thief probably died 5x more times than any other character so far because thieves are the best choices for disarming them. But like everything else, it's random whether you succeed or not so you'll just disarm it if your thief feels like it.

edited 1st Oct '12 12:24:33 PM by RazgrizX

 
I think you forgot mentioning that this thief was no other than myself ! Or , well, my homonym, but still [lol]. He suffered a lot X)

 142 Tarsen, Mon, 1st Oct '12 12:47:50 PM from somewhere or another. Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Hmmm~
fokias is a thief?

-hides things-
Pro Tip: Spiders are not technically insects, but actually skeletons made of congealed hate.
This is a misunderstanding ! I was supposed to be a warrior, but the Dungeon Protection Syndicate screwed up in its papers and listed me as a goddamn thief ! So now I'm being given lockpicks and shit to open chests while I could be punching every sucker in the room with my bare hands !

 144 Steendy, Mon, 1st Oct '12 2:20:11 PM from where my heart desires
The King of Dreamers
Grinding for money now. I need equipment because the monsters on Floor 4 are too damn hard. This game is really advanced for its time, if it weren't so difficult it would be, in my eyes, on the same level or better than Ultima.

The save scumming is irritating but let's continue it. Better than dying and start over anyways. waii

So, I've beaten floor 2 now. It's actually kind of easier than floor 1, it's easier to navegate on it and the enemies aren't much stronger than floor 1 enemies. The worst thing are enemies that poison you because the poison cure spell is a level 4 spell and it takes a while to get it.

The navegation is actually not that bad. Maybe after playing Akalabeth and Ultima I got somewhat good at it but I managed to get to explore most of these 2 floors without needing a map. Except when you're in dark parts of the dungeon. They're so dark that they dispell your light spells! Light spells are only useful for finding hidden doors unfortunately. You can't see anything in them and the only help you're given is an "Ouch!" if you happen to be trying to go through walls. There's a map spell but unless you are checking a real map or trying to draw one yourself, it's useless( at least in the NES version). It only gives you your coordinates and what direction you're facing. The game is too damn stingy to give that to you for free, you gotta waste your MP to even know where the hell you are.

This game introduced many elements to the genre but what amazes me the most about it are the enemies. First of all, they're all divided in categories, like if you meet a group of Small Humanoids, that's not actually their name, they could be either Orcs or Kobolds for example. It took me a while to figure that out, I thought it was a glitch and enemies were just turning randomly into other enemies. Each group has a specific behaviour even; enemies flee from you when you're too strong for them( which is pretty impressive too for a game made in 1981) but not some groups incapable of thoughts like slimes or undead. And there's also a system of friendly enemies too. Enemies can randomly be friendly and you'll be given the option of fighting them or not and that's what affect your alignment. Bizarrely enough, all I seem to meet are friendly UNDEAD, I'm always meeting groups of happy skeletons and zombies.

edited 3rd Oct '12 11:11:39 AM by RazgrizX

 
 146 Lemurian, Wed, 3rd Oct '12 11:46:26 AM from Touhou fanboy attic Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
Update: Currently on level 3. Very confusing place. Very happy I'm playing the SNES-version because of the map. Level 3 and 4 Mage spells are awesome. Lemurian out.
 147 Steendy, Wed, 3rd Oct '12 12:06:31 PM from where my heart desires
The King of Dreamers
10th FLOOOOOR!!! And finally got to the final boss, died on the first turn though. Now, it's grinding time, for levels and equipment. Soon, I'll beat the crap out of him, I'm really pissed off that he made this fucking impossible dungeon.

 148 Lemurian, Wed, 3rd Oct '12 12:33:32 PM from Touhou fanboy attic Relationship Status: Sinking with my ship
Wow, floor 10 already? Hey, perhaps then you could tell me at what floor enemies start dropping worthwhile equipment?
 149 Steendy, Wed, 3rd Oct '12 2:52:15 PM from where my heart desires
The King of Dreamers
Almost all members decided that Wizardry I was too unfair for their tastes, so I've came to the conclusion that we should skip that one. We don't have to beat all the games, especially if they are too hard.

I've just beat the final boss, so I'm done with it. Tarsen wasn't playing from the start, Lemurian got to the final boss, Fokias gave up when everybody else did and Raz is still playing.

So two days from now on, we'll begin Ultima II! waii I'll write my thoughts on Wizardry later.

edited 3rd Oct '12 2:52:56 PM by Steendy

Sigh...Since everyone just basically quit and I'm the only one left playing this, I guess I'll have to hurry up now. And I was so happy I could just take my time 'cause everyone was behind me =P Good thing I named my party after members of the project so I guess we'll all beat it in a sense.

Anyway, I got through floor 3 and 4. Floor 3, as Lemurian said, is really annoying and confusing. It's just a maze with traps and spinning wheels everywhere and navigating on it is impossible because every part of it looks the same. There are some signs that point you to the right direction but they're completely useless, so I just used a map for this one. There are some tough enemies but nothing to worry too much about unless you get lost in it and fall into a bunch of traps.

Floor 4 is kinda small, it has 2 areas: one with a bunch of one square rooms with 90% chance of encountering enemies which is good for grinding I guess and the boss area which is really small. The monsters aren't much stronger than floor 3 monsters but if it wasn't for the fact that they flee a lot from me, I'd have died a lot. Monsters like Were-bears that can paralyze and poison you and deal around 15 damage with each attack aren't so problematic because they're almost always running away. I'd be able to beat them if they didn't, but they'd wreck my party pretty badly and leave me an easy prey for the other monsters. It's so weird to have a game with monsters that value their survival more than killing you.

The boss isn't THAT hard. It's another party of adventurers but since the game loves to piss you off, they have 7 members instead of 6 and of them is HIGH ninja. Common ninjas are already annoying enough but this one can deal up to 40 damage in a single attack and do the usual ninja bullshit of decapitating and poisoning you. The rest of their party are level 7 fighters, clerics and mages. I got really lucky on my second try and managed to surprise them and kill the ninja in my first turn and silence most of the spellcasters. Beating them isn't the problem, the problem is beating them without having your thief killed and you need him because they drop a chest that has a ring of death. The ring of death is a ring that kills however is holding it even if you haven't even identified it yet. The game doesn't tell you this of course and you're left wandering why the hell is one of your party members just spontaneously dropping dead. So, why would you want something like that? Cause it sells for 250000 gold. It offers some high magic resistence but it's pointless since it's always killing you. I prefer to just sell it and be rich.

edited 7th Oct '12 7:39:50 PM by RazgrizX

 
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