That Indefinable Thing -"It"- another name for charisma?

@Carciofus: "It" is basically charisma.

@Jones: Which only proves the point that you can have It and be the worst person in all of history. Is a prerequisite of charisma having a huge ego?

Because (Confession time alert) I tend to have a bit of an ego.

edited 4th Sep '12 3:45:41 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

Similarly, Mussolini is an excellent example of charisma being situational and culturally dependent. If you watch his discourses now, they are absolutely ridiculous: the rhetorics is both overblown and simplistic, the mannerisms border on the self-parody, and the whole thing sounds more like a comedy than anything else.

Still, lots and lots of people were inflamed by his speeches and risked life and limb for his ludicrous ideas.

All right, we can define "It" as charisma, if you want.

But that conflicts with the statement, in the opening post, that It "is that quality possessed by some which draws all others with its magnetic force. With It you win all men if you are a woman and all women if you are a man."

And I maintain that no such quality exists.

edited 4th Sep '12 3:45:35 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

I think Elinor Glyn's statement is a bit ambiguous; she could have been saying that It is a quality which makes a person universally attractive to all members of the opposite sex, but I think she meant that It (charisma) combined with culturally-determined standards of attractiveness, makes it easier for a person to attract members of the opposite sex.

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

Yeah... I would agree that charisma exists, but not as some sort of universal attractant. Some people are just much more personable and likable than others.

Some characters or actors in movies that I'm evidently supposed to find charming I just found kind of smarmy. Like, Blaine from Glee. I kept expecting some sort of revelation that he was actually not a very nice guy, because the way the actor played just seemed insincere to me. Or the Captain from the Sound of Music.

edited 4th Sep '12 3:59:56 AM by LoniJay

Be not afraid...

@Loni Jay: A charismatic person would have to have good social skills, right? Seems to me you would have to know everything about everyone, or at least act like you do. Because, you know, I sort of have this ambition that someday I'll just breezily walk in and say something like "Hi everyone." And everyone's going to act like this: "Who IS she? And why doesn't she talk to ME?" if I don't talk to them for whatever reason.

edited 4th Sep '12 4:06:21 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

well, yeah. People generally aren't attracted (in a more general, friendly sort of sense, not sexually) to the person who makes inappropriate eye contact, or talks too much or too little, or whatever.

Be not afraid...

Thanks for the clarification Loni. And the day that happens is when I'll be aware that I have It.

BTW, you don't like Christopher Plummer?

And another thing: I wonder whether Glyn's book and the movie were the origin of the phrase "thinks he/she's it".

edited 4th Sep '12 4:21:38 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

Well, I disliked the character. I don't remember being bothered by him in any other things, but then again, I can't recall many other movies I've seen with him in it.

Be not afraid...

Well, I think Captain Von Trapp wasn't meant to be charming so much as strict father who gradually has his heart melted...

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

Charisma is relative.

I may find someone to be very charming and likeable, while someone else may simply find them irksome and vapid.

Cultural factors, Personal Preferences...

If one is really charismatic, one can adapt to appeal to any audience. A useful skill, I imagine.

'All he needs is for somebody to throw handgrenades at him for the rest of his life...'

I don't see that working on an international scale, really. Considering the grand scale of human society with all its nuances and cultural differences, one would have to have a crazy amount of knowledge and experience. And then there are close-knit tribal societies that mostly keep to themselves and are unaccustomed to outside visitors.

Join us in our quest to play all RPG video games! Moving on to disc 2 of Grandia!

I think the "it" you are describing is just fame. Marylin Monroe and Madonna turn heads because everybody has heard of them. There's dozens if not hundreds of people within a block of where I live who are just as attractive and/or charismatic, it's just nobody has heard of them outside their immediate social circle.

If Madonna wasn't famous, I think most people would hardly blink if she walked in to the room.

edited 4th Sep '12 1:28:25 PM by EdwardsGrizzly

<><

Evita had It... well once she became First Lady of Argentina she did.

edited 5th Sep '12 2:50:34 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien

Maybe fame amplifies It.

BTW, there's a song from The Desert Song called "It."

''There was a time when sex

Seemed something quite complex

Mr. Freud then employed

Words we never had heard of.

He kept us on the string,

We kept on wondering.

But the seed of sin

Now at last has been

Found by Elinor Glyn.

In one word, she defines

That indefinable thing.''

''She calls it "It",

Just simply "It".

That is the word

They're using now,

For that improper fraction

Of vague attraction

That gets the action somehow."

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien