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Duplicate Trope (new crowner): Hero Syndrome get usage counts

 26 Septimus Heap, Tue, 23rd Apr '13 9:28:09 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
This crowner has 15-0 votes for a rename, so I think we can move on to name selection. A question: By rollcall or crowner?

Piffy
Either way, Munchausen Hero Syndrome is my favourite proposed name so far.
Because underscores break everything: Working link to my Troper page
 28 Spark 9, Wed, 24th Apr '13 3:33:46 PM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Munchhausen is the guy who flew on cannonballs and pulled himself out of the swamp by his bootstraps. I think he's mostly known for his wildly exaggerated tales, but how does that relate to the trope at hand?

Wait, come to think of it, how is this different from Engineered Heroics? Both involve making up a dangerous situation in order to impress people, whether it's for fame or to get the girl shouldn't make a difference.

(edit) okay, so the difference is supposed to be that in Engineered Heroics there's no real danger, and for this trope there is. The problems with that are that (1) it's The Same but More, and (2) the examples don't bear it out.

edited 24th Apr '13 3:36:54 PM by Spark9

Special trousers. Very heroic.
Piffy
Munchausen as in Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy, which also involves endangering the lives and health of others for attention. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munchausen%27s_syndrome_by_proxy

The difference is that in Engineered Heroics it is usually done with the consent of the other involved parties. Everyone except the people to be impressed is in on it. In this, not only is the danger real, the victim never consented to be involved, and it's usually perpetrated only by the individual with Hero Syndrome (using the medical term here). One is a big act where no-one is supposed to get hurt. The other is real, invariably a crime, and it doesn't matter if people get hurt as long as the person perpetrating it gets his saving-people high.

edited 24th Apr '13 4:00:41 PM by Pig_catapult

Because underscores break everything: Working link to my Troper page
 30 StarSword, Wed, 24th Apr '13 5:01:44 PM from somewhere in deep space Relationship Status: In denial
SF-81A Black Knight
Question: is "Munchausen" a preexisting term for this? Because we've got a trope called The Munchausen which refers to something else entirely.
Mnchausen syndrome is a medical term used to describe a person who constantly pretends to be sick to get attention. It and The Munchausen are named after Baron Mnchhausen who has a reputation for telling tall tales.

 32 StarSword, Wed, 24th Apr '13 6:01:43 PM from somewhere in deep space Relationship Status: In denial
SF-81A Black Knight
Ok, so Munchausen Syndrome is a preexisting term and The Munchausen has possible TNS.

edited 24th Apr '13 6:02:11 PM by StarSword

 33 Spark 9, Thu, 25th Apr '13 6:15:16 AM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Yes, it's preexisting, but it means something else. The term means "person pretends to be sick for attention", whereas these two tropes are "person creates a dangerous situation so that he can save people from it.

Furthermore, "Munchhausen syndrome by proxy" is highly technical jargon, as the article linked above states, the proper term is "factitious disorder by proxy" or "fabricated or induced illness by carers". So it's a bad name, for several reasons.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
 34 Noaqiyeum, Thu, 25th Apr '13 8:30:04 AM from across the gulf of space Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
Both are 'person puts one or more other people at risk for attention and their own gratification'.

Also, the technical terms would make terrible trope names and invite misunderstanding.
DRYH
OEOE
NSUA
TTRD
 35 Spark 9, Thu, 25th Apr '13 8:45:54 AM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
[up] Both tropes are that, yes. The name of munchhausen syndrome is unrelated to that: it is about somebody faking illness, not about putting anyone in danger.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
 36 Noaqiyeum, Thu, 25th Apr '13 9:03:11 AM from across the gulf of space Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
No, that is what Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy is about.
DRYH
OEOE
NSUA
TTRD
 37 Spark 9, Thu, 25th Apr '13 9:07:40 AM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
No. Exaggerating or making up a disease of someone in your care so that they become dependent on you (MSBP) is not the same thing as setting up an accident or dangerous situation for anyone, in your care or not, so that you get lauded as a hero (these two tropes).
Special trousers. Very heroic.
 38 Noaqiyeum, Thu, 25th Apr '13 10:38:24 AM from across the gulf of space Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
It is, actually. Giving the patient unnecessary medication is dangerous in and of itself, and poisoning them to obtain a mistaken diagnosis can happen as well.
DRYH
OEOE
NSUA
TTRD
 39 Spark 9, Thu, 25th Apr '13 10:51:53 AM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Just because they overlap in certain circumstances doesn't mean they're the same.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
 40 Noaqiyeum, Thu, 25th Apr '13 10:57:35 AM from across the gulf of space Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
the it-thingy
They're both about pretending that someone else is in danger, without regard for their safety, for the sake of attention and personal gratification. I really don't see how they're different enough for it to be a bad name.
DRYH
OEOE
NSUA
TTRD
Piffy
Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy is a separate, distinct thing from regular Munchausen Syndrome. Think of them as "sister disorders" in same way two things can be Sister Tropes, even though the names suggest a parent/child trope relationship between the two.

Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy always endangers/potentially endangers another person for the gratification of the person with it. The only difference is that in this trope it's the role the person is taking in relation to their victim. They're the doctor/hero instead of the mother/caretaker.

edited 25th Apr '13 3:54:14 PM by Pig_catapult

Because underscores break everything: Working link to my Troper page
 42 Septimus Heap, Fri, 7th Jun '13 9:09:03 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Bumping for votes before the weekend.

 43 Spark 9, Thu, 20th Jun '13 4:08:50 AM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
I'm not too happy with "Firebug Fireman" because "firebug" also means numerous other things beside arsonist (it's a real insect, and a debugging tool, and a futuristic racing game). So I think that Arsonist Fireman would be a clearer title.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
 44 kiukiuclk, Thu, 20th Jun '13 7:24:05 AM from 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693 Relationship Status: My TiMER is ticking
Isn't this basically just the Invoked Trope version of Chronic Hero Syndrome?

Self Made Hero maybe?

Arsonist Fireman /Firebug Fireman is little better but doesn't really convey the attention seeking aspect or the fact that they create the situations.

Heroism Addict maybe? Self Supporting Superman?

It's hard to convey that's actually a villain trope, since it ceases to be heroic if you created the problem yourself.

 45 Spark 9, Thu, 20th Jun '13 7:28:28 AM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Well, yes. It's also The Same but More of Engineered Heroics. We should probably have used a page action crowner here instead of a single-prop.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
 46 Septimus Heap, Thu, 20th Jun '13 7:33:06 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Invoked Trope and the like can be valid reasons to make separate tropes. We discussed the trope differentiations at the start of this topic.

Point taken about the crowners, tho'.

edited 20th Jun '13 7:46:51 AM by SeptimusHeap

Piffy
Heroism Addict sounds good to me. Or Heroing Addict, if we want to be darkly punny.
Because underscores break everything: Working link to my Troper page
What if we changed the perspective on this, and looked at the event, rather than the character? Granted, we should not ignore the real life problem, and a link to a description of that illness (or a decent write-up as the only real life example) should be included.

But what if we changed the definition and name to revolve around the manufactured accident? Created Disaster, or Saving The Victims Of My Traps. It wouldn't be a character trope anymore, but turning the focus to the event rather than the person might make it easier to remember.
Still new. Still learning. Asking questions and making mistakes.
I like Heroism Addict so I added it. I think it sounds better to focus on the person.

 50 Septimus Heap, Thu, 11th Jul '13 3:13:09 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Bumping for votes. We are at:

All others are in the red.

Alternative Titles: Hero Syndrome Runoff
25th Aug '13 7:06:01 PM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the name will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of Crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative names.
At issue:
Choosing a new title for Hero Syndrome. As this is a runoff, please do not downvote an option unless you definitely are against it.
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