Added Alliterative Alien
edited 31st Jan '13 2:07:41 AM by lu127
Added Alliterative AlienOh, and a courtesy link: Memetic Outfit
A Wizard boyPlease write the article link in the Createthread function in CamelCase in the future. The examples overlap with YMMV are there because this once was YMMV. I think we just need to split wicks between Memetic Mutation and move Memetic Outfit examples to /Main/.
Definitely needs a rename. "Memetic" sounds like an Audience Reaction by definition.
Fight It Out!Is it being misused? If it's just being put in YMMV, that's not misuse, just bad categorization. And if as Septimus says, the page used to be YMMV, then the name is not to blame, it just needs a clean up that seemingly never occured after the page was moved out of ymmv.
The trope doesn't need a rename. It needs a date with the "Delete" button for about half the entries which have confused Impossibly Cool Clothes and/or Limited Wardrobe. Good case in point the Fullmetal Alchemist entry. "TINY MINISKIRTS!" is a meme that got joke/discussed about in its own right... all the other entries are just cool outfits. And the skirts are really pushing being a memetic "outfit" since no one wears it.
An outfit that, for whatever reason, sticks in the mind of the audience forever. This can happen even if it's not intended to be embarrassing or funny, but simply a strange fashion choice that is never commented on by anyone else... except fans.How is this not a YMMV trope?
No, the other one.When and why did it stop being a YMMV trope? If it's an outfit the audience simply remembers, it's an Audience Reaction. However, if it's an outfit meant to be distinctive so you can easily recognise the character, it's not YMMV.
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Well memes can be verifiable phenomena that exist whether you like them or not, maybe hard to track down but definitely a thing that exists not just a reaction. (not saying even this is or not, just that a meme existence is still documentable in a YMMV way) The problem is right now the trope is being used to document any particular outfit somebody thought was cool or whatever. Which IS NOT the same thing. You don't have to like the trope's picture to instantly recognize that outfit and whom it invokes, and that its definitely something with a life of its own in culture.
edited 16th Oct '12 3:16:37 PM by gs
ReymmăWe class meme tropes as YMMV because (as I understand it) it depends hugely on what you've been exposed to. Plenty of memes about one work never got beyond one particular section of the fanbase (according to nation, time, interests, what website they consulted...) for whatever reason. I think the problem is that this trope is a mix of memetic and iconic; the difference is that the former is fan-generated, the latter is deliberately done by the creators. The Vocaloids, for instance, are distinct mostly by their unique clothing (Miku especially). The difference between the two is often fuzzy, but based on the examples, I think this could be renamed Iconic Outfit since they are mostly intentional artistic choices related to character design.
edited 16th Oct '12 4:39:35 PM by RJSavoy
Well if Meme's are just assumed to be YMMV for board purposes then that's open and shut. I still feel either way on that front the article could use a lot of trimming in examples... and just did that to put my money where my mouth was. I tried retain examples on a basis of either being A)So recognizable even not knowing nothing else about show you know THAT OUTFIT or B)Show (or at least claim) signs of having a life of their own. The latter for things like spawning jokes/discussion/fanworks/etc out of proportion to its initial appearence, or somehow effecting the original material even if it doesn't make a lot of sense. In general trimming examples where I felt the logic was "I like X character, X character has Limited Wardrobe/Impossibly Cool Clothes. MEME!!!" that blurrs out clearer cases like Sherlock's hat becoming visual shorthand to invoke Holmes. (Also freely admit I largely skipped over certain sections, I don't know say Webcomics well enough and sorting Comicbooks would have taken as long and possibly merits just blanking the section and saying that's the point of comicbook style outfits)
edited 16th Oct '12 5:07:29 PM by gs
The trope stays. Anything Memetic is a YMMV.
I didn't see anyone proposing cutting it. It needs to be made YMMV and have a lot of dubious examples purged, but that's all. The only possible reason I could see for getting rid of it is that "Memetic Mutation specifically about clothing!" seems kind of pointless. But it's not doing any harm either, so I'm not in favor of that.
Added Alliterative AlienThe problem here is that we seem to be stuck with something that seems to be getting confused - it's used in many cases as an outfit which is a meme in the same sense as Memetic Mutation, but we also have many cases where it's an outfit which is iconic, in much the same way as Iconic Item, hence the Sherlock Holmes image used. I feel much the same way, a rename to Iconic Outfit would preserve what seems to be the original meaning, rather than what it has seemingly become.
edited 28th Oct '12 9:24:41 AM by RatherRandomRandy
Ecce Homo SuperiorI support a rename to Iconic Outfit. That would actually be a trope, rather than yet another meme.
(it's David Bowie)
A rename and retool to be Iconic Outfit would probably be the best course. I agree.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
A Wizard boyI'd also turn this into Iconic Outfit, and dump the Audience Reaction examples into Memetic Mutation.
No, the other one.Considering Iconic Outfit would be an actual trope, and one that's certainly in use, I support it.
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I suppose I'm a favor of that as well. The page doesn't seem to be doing much actual harm as it is now, but an actual trope is always better than a list of memes.
ReymmăIf we are changing it, I would suggest using as criterion whether official promotional material (ie, adverts or figurines but not something like a spin-off comic that's part of the story) consistently use this outfit to be recognisable.
An Ex-TroperDefinitely support the change to Iconic Outfit, especially since it is explicitly compared to Iconic Item.
Not nearly a good enough singer for the Choir Invisible, and the Basement Room With A Synth Invisible is much less prestigious.
Flower FairyWould Fan Preferred Outfit be a good title for the audience-reaction counterpart?
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Added Alliterative AlienAnd They Changed It, Now It Sucks can be used if a character design changes and the fans find they preferred one outfit over another. Although I'm getting a little ahead of myself, I feel like a set of criteria can be used to separate an iconic outfit from simply a character with a limited wardrobe - for example, if they're generally featured in that outfit and have environments to match it or reflect the outfit, or where the outfit is prominently displayed and not just something they 'wear'. Another one may be where the outfit changing marks a change in character or tone in story which isn't covered by another trope, such as Clothes Make the Superman.
Total posts: 50
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