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The Drone News and Discussion Thread:

betaalpha
Cross-posting this link from the Protest In Ukraine thread because at the bottom of it is a clear, good quality video taken by a drone of the demonstrations in Kiev, including lots of things on fire.

edited 20th Feb '14 5:32:07 AM by betaalpha

betaalpha
This actually makes me want to be Superman. And provided a bigger thrill for me than the recent movie.

Drone cam, o' course.

edited 18th Mar '14 6:35:13 AM by betaalpha

Mah Headphones
A new art project in Pakistan depicting the faces of the innocent drone casualties hopes to make pilots think twice before they shoot. It's supposedly an attempt at fighting against the dehumanization of war.
I need HoH SiS
 929 Gabrael, Tue, 8th Apr '14 4:36:04 PM from My musings Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
2 tons of fun!
Supposedly my foot. It is an attempt to make the administration be more careful.

I don't blame them either.
Upon death, I want to be cremated and blown in the face of my enemies.
 930 Taira Mai, Tue, 8th Apr '14 6:44:06 PM from El Paso Tx Relationship Status: One Is The Loneliest Number
rollin' on dubs
The problem is that the enemy hides in the civilian population, they love dead kids because of the propaganda value and the CIA is trigger happy.

The Taliban and Al Queda sneak around and use the surrounding population has human shields, when not actively aided by Pakistan's ISI or friendly officials.

Unlike the USAF or NATO, the CIA is all too willing to drop the hammer on sketchy intel. "Oh it looked this way for several hours and it will look this way again even if we can't see it." Ssrly, read Rogue Warrior, the book by former Seal Team 6 commander Richard Marcinko. It's sad how quick the CIA makes snap decisions.

Mah Headphones
[up]in that case, that just makes this art project all the more important in sending a message to those people.
I need HoH SiS
 932 Tuefel Hunden IV, Wed, 9th Apr '14 1:20:32 AM from Wandering. Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchmen of the Apocalypse
I don't think you guys get it. They don't care and they will find someone who won't care as much or simply views said project as just more propaganda and have no trouble splatting a dozen bystanders as collateral.

That is why I don't like the amount of authority the CIA has over drone strikes. Said strikes need a lot stricter targeting protocol as well use of something other then a sledge hammer for a fly. ie use the miniaturized munitions.

edited 9th Apr '14 1:21:28 AM by TuefelHundenIV

"Who watches the watchmen?"
 933 Gabrael, Wed, 9th Apr '14 5:18:39 AM from My musings Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
2 tons of fun!
The CIA may not care, but the CIA is not the end all of America.

EVERYONE else can see it: our NATO allies, Ms. Susie teaching 3rd grade, the President of Mexico, Bubba in the woods, UNICEF, the United States Army, Vladimir Putin, etc.

America has always been really good about digging their own graves with the international community. Maybe before we could just barrel through and say "Nah Nah! I don't have to listen to you!" But that isn't the case anymore. Popular trust in the government is at an all time low.

No. This project is a good one. I am not opposed to drones as a system but I am opposed to blindly bombing the shit out of everything and further encouraging the creation of enemies we started to begin with.

Upon death, I want to be cremated and blown in the face of my enemies.
 934 Tuefel Hunden IV, Wed, 9th Apr '14 12:08:02 PM from Wandering. Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchmen of the Apocalypse
Gabe: Your still not getting it at all. Here is the problem. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if everyone else sees it because they don't control the CIA. UNICEF, UN, NATO can't and really haven't tried to do dick to stop the CIA much less Bubba. Bubba probably doesn't actually care.

The rest of the world sure as shit hasn't been trying all that hard either including the Pakistani government who has their hands in this. This hasn't been a secret or something coming out of the shadows the world has known about it for some time. If no real meaningful action has been taken before I can pretty much guarantee nothing will be done now. A few may make a few feeble gestures but ultimately no serious effort is likely to be made.

You have to convince the people who really can tell the CIA what to do, to take a different approach. This really won't convince them. The last time any effort was made internally by the US to at least blunt the CIA's ability to carry out these strikes was stopped by the House.

Tell you what. You want to really see the CIA stop. Convince the Pakistani government to actually defend the airspace around their borders. Those drones will vanish quite quickly after the first few become burning wreckage. The problem is the Pakistani government has been playing the role of Janus the two faced God to the hilt.

I sure would like to see the CIA blunted or even stopped because they are making life harder for the US in general but this little art project realistically isn't going to do anything to that effect. I give them an A for effort though. A think of the children with pictures at least aimed at part of the people involved but ultimately it won't stop the drones. You can clap your hands and believe all you want but the reality of the matter is that it really won't achieve much.

"Who watches the watchmen?"
 935 Gabrael, Wed, 9th Apr '14 3:25:59 PM from My musings Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
2 tons of fun!
Totally missing my point. The world knows the CIA doesn't give a damn. That's a given.

But they don't have to target just the CIA if they want to hurt America. There are many more effective ways to alienate and impact America.

You can already see that with China's ball grip on our debt, Putin bating us, lack of support from former bosom buddies.

A lot of the nations are just sitting back and letting us collapse under our own drama. I don't blame them either.

While many would love for the drone strikes to stop or at least become more specific, they can win in other ways. And when you are being bombed all to hell, any victory is a major one.
Upon death, I want to be cremated and blown in the face of my enemies.
 936 Tuefel Hunden IV, Wed, 9th Apr '14 3:42:53 PM from Wandering. Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchmen of the Apocalypse
Gabe: That is all par for the course and not exactly new. Also hardly a sign of alienation. Putin has always been contentious with damn near everyone including the US. China and debt has nothing to do with this at all. Mix and max support for various US efforts is nothing new under the sun in this century or the last.
"Who watches the watchmen?"
 937 Taira Mai, Wed, 9th Apr '14 7:37:46 PM from El Paso Tx Relationship Status: One Is The Loneliest Number
rollin' on dubs
The problem is that the Taliban and Pakistan don't care one wit if children die.

When Somalia went pear-shaped and the US pulled out, most of the international goodwill left. Somalia is just now recovering from the warlords and the chaos.

Remember Bin Laden and his ilk used Blackhawk Down as an experiment. They didn't care that the Somalis had to live with it.

Whole tribes over there don't care about "civilization" or anything western.

The CIA, sadly like in Vietnam, views it as a war of bodycounts. The DOD learned the hard way that numbers like bodycounts or sorties don't measure progress. The nerds running things at the CIA love numbers because they don't bleed.
 938 Tuefel Hunden IV, Wed, 9th Apr '14 8:48:53 PM from Wandering. Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchmen of the Apocalypse
The severe detachment of human intel and relying on data sheets seems to be a huge issue with the CIA. They have the ability to be so much more thorough.

The Pakistani government really doesn't care all that much. The relationship with the tribal regions is often at best contentious and is a big part of the problem.

They have the ability to stop the drone strikes if they didn't really want them there but have made no moves to do so at all.
"Who watches the watchmen?"
vicarious
Wait a minute. So if they decided to aggressively preserve their airspace by picking off drones, the US government would let it happen?

But as things are now, there probably is not going to be any change for the better by the actions of both governments?

 940 Le Garcon, Thu, 10th Apr '14 7:18:29 AM from Skadovsk Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
Not worth the trouble to go kick Pakistan's ass.

Besides, then you'd get Russia and India cheering and things would just be weird.

edited 10th Apr '14 7:18:58 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really, when?
 941 Silas W, Thu, 10th Apr '14 7:21:56 AM from The UNITED Kingdom Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Globalist Bunny
They wouldn't have to pick the drones of, just escort them out of the airspace and the US would get the message.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael

"If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
 942 Achaemenid, Thu, 10th Apr '14 7:22:07 AM from Mitakihara Town, Copenhagen Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Za naszą i waszą wolność
[up]

China would be furious. Pakistan is their big regional ally.
 943 Greenmantle, Thu, 10th Apr '14 7:33:00 AM from Britannia Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Marking Time
[up] Up to the the stage of co-developing a fighter with them.
 944 Le Garcon, Thu, 10th Apr '14 7:34:19 AM from Skadovsk Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
Sort of looks like an F-16 knockoff.
Oh really, when?
 945 Achaemenid, Thu, 10th Apr '14 7:42:02 AM from Mitakihara Town, Copenhagen Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Za naszą i waszą wolność
[up]

Likely because it is. Still has some lovely lines; in some ways it's even prettier than the original.
 946 Greenmantle, Thu, 10th Apr '14 7:43:11 AM from Britannia Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Marking Time
[up][up] More like one of the aircraft the JF-17 is replacing — Chinese MiG-21 versions (versions of F-7P) and their Mirage III/V.

edited 10th Apr '14 7:43:50 AM by Greenmantle

 947 Tuefel Hunden IV, Thu, 10th Apr '14 11:14:01 AM from Wandering. Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchmen of the Apocalypse
Not escorting. There is a lot less stigma about splashing a drone then a manned fighter. They would only have to knock a few out of the sky to get the point across and the US would likely stop for a while.

The US is very unlikely to go to war over a drone dropping or firing weapons on another persons people under shady circumstances when they decide that is enough swat a couple.
"Who watches the watchmen?"
 948 Le Garcon, Thu, 10th Apr '14 12:02:10 PM from Skadovsk Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
Again, it's really not worth the effort to go kick Pakistan's ass over a few drones
Oh really, when?
 949 Achaemenid, Thu, 10th Apr '14 12:02:55 PM from Mitakihara Town, Copenhagen Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Za naszą i waszą wolność
Pakistan is not Iraq, Afghanistan, or Libya. They'd fight, and probably do pretty well.
 950 Silas W, Thu, 10th Apr '14 12:35:11 PM from The UNITED Kingdom Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Globalist Bunny
[up][up][up] Sure they could drop a drone, but I fail to see why. Do you honestly think that a drone isn't going to get turned around if a pair of Pakistani fighters turn up next to it and indicate that it should vacate their airspace.

[up][up] You do realise that Pakistan is a nuclear weapon state right? Now I doubt they have the capability to hit the US, but that just means that the US would have to ballistic missile the entire Pakistani nuclear arsenal before sending ground forces anywhere near.

edited 10th Apr '14 12:35:50 PM by SilasW

"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael

"If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
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