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Misused: Massive Race Selection get usage counts

 1 Ookamikun, Thu, 23rd Aug '12 11:58:24 AM from the lupine den
Wolves, wolves, wolves!
First of all, what counts as "massive"? Should 5 be the base line?

Second, I notice some examples add stuff like "this entry has many races" and yet only two are playable, or something like that.
Lone wolf? Hah! "Lone" wolves die out of hunger and loneliness. The wolf needs the pack, and the pack needs the wolf.
For starters, does the trope really exist (got the start-new-page page)? If so, someone fix the title.

edited 23rd Aug '12 12:41:51 PM by spacemarine50

 
Dragon Writer
Oh, so this is about character races/species and not, say, making 3 laps around the track?

edited 23rd Aug '12 9:22:19 PM by Stratadrake

 4 nrjxll, Thu, 23rd Aug '12 10:09:18 PM Relationship Status: Not war
I was confused by that too.

And yeah, now that I look, the page doesn't appear to exist.

edited 23rd Aug '12 10:09:47 PM by nrjxll

Nerds Are Sexy.. sometimes
Massive Race Selection, perhaps?
This has got to be like the 5,000th time I forgot my email or password...
Now that I read it, things I saw:

  • Duplicate to Loads and Loads of Races?
  • "races" can mean either alien species or ethnicities (also animal species, like on earth?)
  • Is there a trope where game has a lot of races, but all but 1-2 are unplayable or you can't choose your race at all?
 
Found a trope that may be relevant to this thread: No Campaign for the Wicked
 
Sharknado Warning
There's no actual article linked to this. WTF is the OP about?

Nerds Are Sexy.. sometimes
[up] Massive Race Selection.

As far as actually addressing issues in the OP... I guess the first thing to do is get rid of plain incorrect entries, right?

As for the minimum amount, I have no input there. I've not played too many games of this type so I have no sense what the amount should be.

EDIT: Thank you, mods!

EDIT 2: I removed the examples that made it obvious that the races weren't all playable, but a lot of examples don't specify either way. I probably missed stuff.

edited 24th Aug '12 5:27:33 PM by StopMentioningYourself

This has got to be like the 5,000th time I forgot my email or password...
 10 Ironeye, Fri, 24th Aug '12 5:15:45 PM from SoCal Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
With Mod Hat On
Link fixed.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
Related thread of a trope that might solve some trouble here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1345839071072061000&page=1#5

Also, what % of the races must be playable in order to be this trope? Below this % I think is No Campaign for the Wicked (has a lot of races, but can't play most of them)

edited 24th Aug '12 6:37:58 PM by spacemarine50

 
Nerds Are Sexy.. sometimes
[up] No Campaign for the Wicked just means you can't play as the villain.
This has got to be like the 5,000th time I forgot my email or password...
[up]If that's true, than that trope has decayed, as I said in that trope's thread.

edited 24th Aug '12 11:18:22 PM by spacemarine50

 
The description needs to be tweaked, and the examples need to be cleaned, the trope's otherwise fine.

We should add to the description that this only applies when race is part of the choices you make in character creation (and, of course, this limits the trope to games with character creation). NOT to just any setting with a large amount of races in it.

...What the hell is an example from touhou doing in that page!?

Also, we should set a minimun number of races to be included. I'd say 15.
In a quest to erase natter from the face of earth.
Massive Race Selection was transplanted from Loads and Loads of Races. That trope was changed because it was labeled as a medium-specific trope, but is most definitely not medium-specific, and the majority of examples were not from games. See its thread: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1325658396002427600

Is there a trope where game has a lot of races, but all but 1-2 are unplayable or you can't choose your race at all?
Theoretically, those would fall under the new version of Loads and Loads of Races. Practically, including game examples in there might be problematic.

The description needs to be tweaked, and the examples need to be cleaned, the trope's otherwise fine.

We should add to the description that this only applies when race is part of the choices you make in character creation (and, of course, this limits the trope to games with character creation).

I've been trying for a while to find people who can help write the Massive Race Selection description and sort examples, because I just... don't know video games. At all.

[up]I initially altered the original Loads and Loads of Races description specifically to refer to character-creation, but I was told that this excluded Strategy Games. I don't know what those are, and never found anyone who knows what they are to write a better trope description, resulting in the placeholder description you see now.

As for examples... yeah. They need sorting and cleaning. I did my best to sort the examples, but I don't know anything about video games. This page needs people familiar with gaming to sort examples, and check each example to make sure it is 1. a game and 2. an example in which all those races are playable.

If you know anything about video games, please help rewrite the description and fix up the examples.

edited 25th Aug '12 12:39:26 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
 16 nrjxll, Sat, 25th Aug '12 1:44:58 PM Relationship Status: Not war
The card game examples are pretty clearly wrong.

The Magic: The Gathering example is treating "playable race" as "creature type you can put several of into a deck." I don't know how valid that is, since it seems to be stretching the trope concept fairly far. You can certainly play a "tribal" deck full of creatures from mostly one race, which seems comparable to playable races for building armies in a miniatures wargame. I could try to narrow it down to those creature types which have enough cards to make a tribal deck based on them, except then there's the question of whether it counts as "playable" by MTG definition if it isn't tournament playable...

So if people think that shouldn't be on here, it can go.

Duel Masters I don't know at all.

edited 26th Aug '12 12:02:59 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
 18 Spark 9, Sun, 26th Aug '12 4:33:43 AM from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
[up] Well, that Magic: The Gathering example surely is a trope, only it isn't this trope.
Special trousers. Very heroic.
[up]I moved both card game examples to Loads and Loads of Races.

Should I note on the description that card game examples don't belong in the subtrope?

edited 26th Aug '12 12:54:10 PM by ArcadesSabboth

Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
Trope isn't indexed.

edited 26th Aug '12 4:06:42 PM by spacemarine50

 
[up] Fixed. Thanks.
Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
Can I please have somebody familiar with the games to help sort examples?

Right now I need to know if the following examples are about playable races, or non-playable races. Or how many of each example are playable?

  • The ''ZAngband'' variant Entroband has thirty-seven races and twenty-seven classes.
  • Agarest Senki features humans, syriums, high elves, dark elves, onerthes', neocolloms, ryulents, larvas, greers, nelths, harpuias and yulishees.
  • Lightning Legend: Daigo no Daibouken, taking place in a Fantasy Counterpart Culture of Japan, holds several races represented by several player characters and NPCs: Humans (Daigo, Mayu, Forelock, Adolf, Mirona); Monsters, with at least two sub-categories: Junma / Pure-Monster ( The father of Daigo's mother), and Seima / Holy-Monster (Rankerk); Fairies, with at least one sub-category, the Yukijin / Snow People (Yuki and her father Hiroo); the elf-like Reijin / Beauty Ones (Misa, Risa, and Guren); the big furball rabbit-like Mukumuku (Mokomoko and his family); the Henshin / Transformation race (Disguiser); and the Puppeteer Parasite Hat race (the hat monster controlling Naughty Nou).
  • Mass Effect, as part of its huge universe, has many, many races. Many are only known by reading supplemental in-game material.
    • Citadel races: Asari, Drell, Elcor, Hanar, Humans, Keepers, Salarians, Turians, Volus
    • Non-Citadel races: Batarian, Collector, Geth, Krogan, Quarians, Roloi, Reapers, Virtual Aliens*, Vorcha, Yahg
    • Extinct Races: Arthenn, Insannon, Protheans, Rachni*, Thoi'Han, Thorian, Zeioph
Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
 23 nrjxll, Sat, 1st Sep '12 2:11:24 PM Relationship Status: Not war
I don't think I've even heard of the top three games, but I can explain Mass Effect. If we took just the normal single-player games into account, it wouldn't qualify - you play as a specific protagonist, who is human. Various companions over the games are from different species, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't count.

However, in the multiplayer added by Mass Effect 3, there's quite a few playable races - currently, the list consists of asari, batarians, drell, geth, humans, krogan, quarians, salarians, turians, and vorcha, which would put it at the "10 playable races" proposed in the other thread. Should we include it for multiplayer alone, though? Not sure.

At any rate, the example as currently written is wrong.

World's Toughest Milkman
I don't know the Zangband variant mentioned there, but Zangband itself offers you the choice of playing as: Amberite, Barbarian, Beastman, Cyclops, Dark-Elf, Draconian, Dwarf, Elf, Ghoul, Gnome, Golem, High-Elf, Hobbit, Human, Imp, Klackon, Kobold, Mindflayer, Nibelung, Skeleton, Spectre, Sprite, Vampire, Yeek, and Zombie. Not to mention half-a-dozen Half-breeds I won't bother to list. Even if we merge some of those as duplicates of Human or Elf, I think it easily qualifies, and the spin-off game probably does have more.

edited 3rd Sep '12 8:45:30 PM by Xtifr

"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
Thanks, I moved and rewrote those two.

Is there anybody out there who knows about the others?
Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.

Page Action: Massive Race Selection
1st Oct '12 8:30:19 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
This is the Loads And Loads Of Races subtrope which applies to playable races in Tabletop and Video Games.

Should this subtrope be defined by a specific minimum number of playable races? What should that minimum be?
Total posts: 63
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