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Content Policy Discussion:

This thread is about our content policy. Your questions, complaints and suggestions about the content policy go here.

Our article on our Content Policy and the 5P can be found here.

This post contains the original, longer version of the introduction of this thread.

Before you post here, we expect you to read the post about this in General Announcements, as well as at least the first post in this thread to get a clue about what is going on. If your question or complaint is already addressed in either of those, don't be surprised if we respond with just a link or a quote.

If you have questions or complaints or suggestions after reading the announcement, this is the place where you can ask them.

edited 16th Jan '13 8:28:11 AM by BestOf

 126 Septimus Heap, Thu, 30th Aug '12 10:54:42 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Created Content Policy as a beta (the formatting is still weird and there are several Walls of Text) for a policy page for the content policy as derived from the forum threads. I took most of the posts' content more or less identically, except:
  • I removed the ALLCAPS, as there is no need for shouting.
  • lolicon and shotacon have several meanings unrelated to out content policy and just invite misflaggings, so I removed them from the Q&A bit. It they do neverthless belong, readd them.
  • I replaced any "p(a)edoshit" with "p(a)edopandering" as per the discussion earlier.

 127 tdgoodrich 1, Thu, 30th Aug '12 11:16:30 AM from Atlanta Relationship Status: Californicating
Same Kind Of Bad As Me
Looks good for the most part, but do away with that redlink to KnJ, please.
"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop

"I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
 128 Septimus Heap, Thu, 30th Aug '12 11:21:41 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Unredlinked it, since it's a likely scenario to happen here.

Also, the Q&A was taken from a rather wordy GA post. I think we can shorten some of the entries; permission to proceed?

For the record (not that I'm suggesting reviewing all of these), here are the "Pages Pending For Perusal By P5" that were not formally resolved:

  • Addergoole: page is pretty sparse (little more than a bare trope list), but does contain a lot of sex tropes.
    • Defense: While there are sex tropes involved, the story itself is not pornographic & the sex is a small part of a very large story
  • Batman In The Bowels Of Hell: Porn with bare threads of plot
  • Bakemonogatari: Sexualization of several underage female characters.
  • Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai: Maria and Kobato are very much underage.
  • The Brown Bunny: Porn with Plot, but the only explicit scene is a blowjob scene.
  • Cannibal Ferox, Cannibal Holocaust: Gorn that averts No Animals Were Harmed
  • Cats N' Cameras: page says "NC-17 rated" and that it has "copious amounts of Fanservice."
    • Defense: "but has more plot that sex. It's just that when sex happens they don't skip past it."
  • Chester 5000 XYV: identified as erotic and explicitly sexual.
    • Defense: "Erotic, but deep and focuses more on showing how relationships develop and love than just on sex. Might qualify is borderline erotica, but wouldn't count as porn."
  • Chimneyspeak: Gory violence, nudity, non-explicit sex, page has links to artist's other NSFW (and much more porny) works. Child prostitution is referenced but not shown, and is a Berserk Button of one of the main protagonists.
    • Proposal: Cut all direct links, lock page.
  • Chintsubu: Described as "a manga about boys with talking penises", contains sexual humor involving possibly-underaged characters. The person submitting it does not know how explicit the manga actually is but still feels that it should be looked over. Context: Smutty gag comedy, characters are identified as second- and third-year high school (~16-18), but one is young-looking enough that the author feels the need to add a little "note: high school student" label during his first sex scene.
  • Chugworth Academy: stub article, but calls it a "sexist comic" and alludes to "sexual exploits."
  • Corruption Of Champions: Sex and fetish transformation game. The premise seems to involve rape a lot.
  • Dumbledore's Army and the Year of Darkness: Rape as Drama twice
    • Defense: As with many of these entries, the rape is not the main focus of the fic
  • The Idolmaster: Several underaged characters depicted in sexualized fashion.
    • Defense: No actual sex is shown
  • IT: There's one particularly infamous scene where a bunch of underage kids have sex. The trope page mentions that they are so underage that it's highly unlikely that they could have even performed the sexual acts they're said to perform in the book.
    • Defense: This appears to be another test case of sorts of what is going to pass by this council, as IT is very much a legitimate work in the Stephen King collection of horror novels.
  • legolas by laura: Lolicon, according to the trope page (main character is 10).
    • Defense(?): The most explicit this gets is "and then one of the Orcs striped her and then he raped her". Not erotic in any way.
  • Lovemagic: described as an "adult webcomic" and "very NSFW"; apparently also contains Naughty Tentacles prominently in one section.
  • The Mating Frenzy: Plotless porn.
  • Neo Armageddon Evangelist Looks to be a porn fic centered around rape as a Deus Sex Machina, plus it seems some characters are under 16 when raped. Also has Naughty Tentacles involved. The recommendation for this fic was removed for the aforementioned reasons when the "no Lemon fics w/under-16 characters" was introduced.
  • Seikon No Qwaser: Borderline hentai with Audience-Alienating Premise (namely, that magic powers in this universe are powered by sucking on womens' breasts).
    • Defence: No sex at all, a heavily censored TV version is available that puts Censor Bars over any nudity and heavy on the plot.
  • South Park: To be fair, it does need cleaning.
    • Defense: A clean-up thread in Special Efforts is underway.
  • Starfighter: page says "NSFW for graphic sex, but has a SFW filter page." how do we handle these sorts of things?

Some comments: I recall IT being zapped off the list, but that one scene was discussed. The P5 seems to make a point of not cutting South Park or anything else like it; the page cleanup is probably already done by now. Corruption Of Champions was cut during the initial purge, but seems like a terrible candidate for restoration.

 130 Septimus Heap, Thu, 30th Aug '12 12:18:36 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
^That goes into the other thread; The Place For Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering. Or flag them all.

 131 lu 127, Thu, 30th Aug '12 12:24:49 PM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
Bakemonogatari and The Idolmaster were looked at and found to be harmless.
迷子の足音消えた
代わりに祈りの唄
love lockdown, you lose.
Cannibal Holocaust was looked at as well, and I cleaned up most of South Park myself a few months ago.

EDIT: Because South Park is not a live-action show. XD

edited 30th Aug '12 1:12:59 PM by LargoQuagmire

 133 tdgoodrich 1, Thu, 30th Aug '12 1:18:13 PM from Atlanta Relationship Status: Californicating
Same Kind Of Bad As Me
[up]@Septimus: Permission granted.
"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop

"I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
 134 Septimus Heap, Thu, 30th Aug '12 1:21:17 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
OK, trimming underway. Will report back.

EDIT: Did the first pass, will come back later.

Edits:
  • Under the "is this endorsement" section, I cut out the lenghty description to just a reference to Greedy Jew, Mein Kampf and Adolf Hitler (Godwin's Law, ahoy!), since theys probably work just as well.
  • The Wikipedia bullet was mostly wrong, so I just added the actual rules in.
  • Authorial intent is not important, just the outcome. Trimmed down the section.
  • I removed the "loli" bit since it's tangential to the topic.

There are a few things that need more trimming, but I didn't dare touch them before, so I will ask for discussion.
  • The first and eight Q&A can get into another folder ("The longer explanation")
  • Q&A 3 can probably be just a link to 5P
  • Q&A 4 is probably the most controversial: It's the core bit of the policy, and the because an adult having sex with an underage person is wrong in just about any society bit is walking on the edge of being both irrelevant and incorrect.
  • Q&A 5 ("Exceptions") can go in the "asking for review" folder.
  • Q&A 6 seems to be explaining semantics. I think it can safely be rolled into Q&A 4.
  • Q&A 7: Someone else will have to decide here.

edited 30th Aug '12 1:43:24 PM by SeptimusHeap

 135 Willbyr, Thu, 30th Aug '12 1:45:10 PM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
I put the list of works from the sandbox in the P5 thread.
Bakemonogatari, Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai, IT and The Mating Frenzy were all reviewed and found to be okay, from what I recall.

love lockdown, you lose.
Edited because I am abusing Firefox tabs.

edited 30th Aug '12 3:47:59 PM by LargoQuagmire

 138 Septimus Heap, Thu, 30th Aug '12 3:47:21 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Mate, this is the policy discussion thread, not the work discussion thread.

love lockdown, you lose.
I am so mixed up in threads. I'll move over there, sorry.
 140 Septimus Heap, Thu, 30th Aug '12 4:16:24 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Applied some more expansion to Content Policy. Now, what we need to do is:
  1. Proof-check that I accurately reflected all passages (especially on my summary of the rules in the description and on the scanlation links thing).
  2. Add a folder concerning the history of the policy.
  3. Cut down on the now-useless elaboration in the FAQ section.
  4. Pick a name and launch the sandbox.

 141 tdgoodrich 1, Thu, 30th Aug '12 5:17:04 PM from Atlanta Relationship Status: Californicating
Same Kind Of Bad As Me
Making some very minor tweaks to the sandbox. Will update when complete.

  • Added the disclaimer on En. Wikipedia's occasional inaccuracy about manga demographics
  • Deleted the line on the "ccoa test" as the criteria is listed elsewhere on the page in a better place
  • Deleted "No pressure, lads :p" as it's a leftover from copypasting Bobby G's post
  • Removed a stray asterisk, assumed it was a typo
  • Changed "point 4" to "point 3 and 4"
  • Fixed scattered punctuation errors and other typos

Before any sort of official launch, it would probably be best to hear back from the other P5ers.

edited 30th Aug '12 5:32:21 PM by tdgoodrich1

"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop

"I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
 142 Septimus Heap, Fri, 31st Aug '12 11:05:49 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
I added the folder about the history, and another for further reading. Now (apart from proofchecking by the other 5P) it's only about further shortening of the FAQ.

Also, Discar, I removed the links to lolicon because the page's description does not at all match common usage of the term. So, barring any last-day objections, I'll repull the link.

edited 31st Aug '12 11:06:05 AM by SeptimusHeap

Whoops, sorry. I should have brought that up here first.
 144 Septimus Heap, Fri, 31st Aug '12 11:29:47 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Re-pulled.

For the record, I wasn't objecting to you editing the page (Sandboxes Are A Free Edit), but the fact that the actual description of lolicon doesn't matter.

Ecce Homo Superior
EDIT: Sorry, wrong thread.

edited 31st Aug '12 12:26:47 PM by DoktorvonEurotrash

(it's David Bowie)
 146 Septimus Heap, Fri, 31st Aug '12 12:25:21 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
^Again, wrong thread; use the The Place one.

 147 Septimus Heap, Fri, 31st Aug '12 2:27:47 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
I created a glossary folder and trimmed away at the redundant pieces, moving them to better sections. To wit:
  • The sections about minors and whether we want paedophiles are probably just trivia.
  • Google Incident is explained in the policy history.
  • I changed 14 to 12 in the "OK in culture X" section, since a) in fact, it's OK in a few countries and b) sexualization can also refer to fanservice, and that is often OK of 14-year olds.
  • I have completely rewritten the Wikipedia entry, as it was painting the other wiki inaccurately in some places (understaffment and resulting issues exist there as well, for instance).

If any of these should be kept, let me know.

 148 tdgoodrich 1, Fri, 31st Aug '12 2:57:38 PM from Atlanta Relationship Status: Californicating
Same Kind Of Bad As Me
Moved glossary to directly above "Further reading" tab. Having it in the middle was just awkward. Apart from that, I don't have any problems with the sandbox.
"Polite life will fill you full of cancer." - Iggy Pop

"I've seen the future, brother, it is murder." -Leonard Cohen
I'm not sure the difference between guro and gorn is clearly illustrated in Content Policy. Someone who knows what guro is already might get it, but others will find it rather obtuse.

The Demon Slayer
The main difference between Guro and Gorn is that Guro is a lot more sexualized than regular Gorn, and it's meant to appeal to a fetishistic interest. Gorn, on the other hand, is over-the-top violence and gore that's primarily seen in horror and the more violent action movies, and it's primarily meant to appeal to the audience's craving for "blood, blood and more blood."

edited 1st Sep '12 8:54:10 AM by TwoGunAngel

Total posts: 1,389
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