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Total posts: [66]
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Duplicate Trope: Recycled In Space get usage counts

First, this trope is X Meets Y, But More Specific. Also, any example of this can be Show A: Show B, in (a difference). A lot of examples that I think shouldn't be this trope. Other things:

  • This can be abused for anything in space
  • Role of the creator's intent is unclear; intentional only or include all unintentional?
  • Some example types might not be examples, but unclear
  • Also may be duplicate to several other tropes

This should be merged or split up.
 
Definitely "no" from me on the merge. This trope is pretty well known even outside TV Tropes. Note the thousands of inbounds.

 3 nrjxll, Sat, 11th Aug '12 5:39:28 PM Relationship Status: Not war
The first thing is a legitimate issue we've had in the past, though.

 4 Xtifr, Sat, 11th Aug '12 6:01:52 PM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
I think X Meets Y is a character/genre trope, while this is primarily a setting trope: the character/genre in an atypical setting. I think that's a pretty solid distinction, and oppose a merge.

On the other hand, both see misuse for each other, and I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done about it.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
One thing that shouldn't be done to fix that is to have over half the description be a message to editors about what not to add.

edited 11th Aug '12 6:10:32 PM by abk0100

 6 nrjxll, Sat, 11th Aug '12 6:14:44 PM Relationship Status: Not war
We can try commenting it out, but messages like that tend to exist for good reason.

Shouls I move this to Special Efforts, especially if the problem is bigger than I stated (and I think it may be)?
 
even older skool
X Meets Y is usually phrased with works for both X and Y. If all Y brings to the comparison is the setting, then it's not applicable. That's what's going on here: A work is "like X but with a different setting".

For example, Ran is King Lear in Feudal Japan. If phrased as an X Meets Y, that would end up something like King Lear meets Kagemusha, and that's just not a good X Meets Y.

 9 Xtifr, Sat, 11th Aug '12 11:39:46 PM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
[up]Excellent example! I hope that makes it clear even to people who don't know the work.

I agree that we don't want a long message to editors. What we want is a clear description, and possibly an explanation on both tropes of how they differ. I generally don't like Example As Thesis, but I suspect adding Enraged Filia's example somewhere might well help.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 11 burnpsy, Sun, 12th Aug '12 1:05:47 AM from Ontario, Canada Relationship Status: Abstaining
The Eternal Fool
[up]None of those were anime...

...One wasn't even Japanese...

edited 12th Aug '12 1:06:30 AM by burnpsy

 12 Septimus Heap, Sun, 12th Aug '12 1:25:15 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Christmas worms
X Meets Y and X Replaces Y are distinctly different things. No to a merge.

 13 Xtifr, Sun, 12th Aug '12 2:23:36 PM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
You think King Lear is anime? *facepalm*

Ok, if one of The Bard's ten best-known plays doesn't ring any bells, how about one of his top three?

For example, Throne of Blood is Macbeth recycled in Feudal Japan. If phrased as an X Meets Y, that would end up something like Macbeth meets Kagemusha, and that's just not a good X Meets Y.

Note that you really shouldn't have to know what Throne of Blood or Kagemusha is to understand the example. Technically, you shouldn't even have to know what Macbeth is, though I weep at the thought. (Not asking you to have seen it, but the idea that someone doesn't even recognize the name makes me shudder.) All you really have to realize is that those three are works, while Feudal Japan is a time and place.

edited 12th Aug '12 2:24:52 PM by Xtifr

"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 14 reteov, Sun, 12th Aug '12 4:03:25 PM from Phoenix, AZ
Penguin Producer
Perhaps a simpler-to-understand name, like "Same story, different setting"? Or maybe we can add a little Added Alliterative Appeal with "Same Story, Different Day?"

edited 12th Aug '12 4:08:12 PM by reteov

It's pretty much a pre-existing term. And a very popular one.

edited 12th Aug '12 4:26:51 PM by abk0100

 16 Xtifr, Sun, 12th Aug '12 7:21:03 PM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
With nearly three thousand wicks and over eight thousand incoming links, the chances that this will be renamed are pretty near nil.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 17 nrjxll, Sun, 12th Aug '12 7:22:52 PM Relationship Status: Not war
I'd question how many of those wicks/inbounds are referring to the general trope instead of "literally recycled in space".

 18 Septimus Heap, Mon, 13th Aug '12 12:42:10 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Christmas worms
[up]Isn't that a form of Recycled IN SPACE!?

 19 nrjxll, Mon, 13th Aug '12 12:44:33 AM Relationship Status: Not war
[up]The problem is that I think people aren't applying this to anything else.

 20 Septimus Heap, Mon, 13th Aug '12 12:52:33 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Christmas worms
That is what redirects and a trope description are for. And I've seen enough potholes to think it's not an issue. Any inbound check, by the way?

 21 Xtifr, Mon, 13th Aug '12 1:09:06 AM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
I've also seen it applied to lots of other things: Recycled in a Standard Fantasy Setting, recycled in Ancient Rome, and, of course, recycled in Feudal Japan.

One redirect that I think could be very useful is simply Recycled In, which would have saved me some potholing above. :)

eta: at the same time, recycled literally in space is one of the most common forms, which is why the trope is named that. So we'd need some really strong evidence to convince me of underuse (which is what nrjxll's allegation boils down to).

edited 13th Aug '12 1:11:44 AM by Xtifr

"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 22 nrjxll, Mon, 13th Aug '12 1:16:54 AM Relationship Status: Not war
Actually, my worry is that it's underused for all forms except "literally in space".

 23 Xtifr, Mon, 13th Aug '12 1:28:02 AM Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
If you want to perform a wick check, be my guest. To be statistically significant, you need to check at least the square root of the total number of wicks, or 50, whichever is larger, IIRC. (That's 55 in this case.)

But keep in mind that recycled literally in space is probably the most common form—that's why the trope is named that—so you'll have to show serious underuse for other settings.

(Or, we could just add Recycled In as a more general-purpose redirect, and fix up the description a bit.)
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
even older skool
Personally, I always thought of that one Homestar Runner thing as being the Trope Namer. As for solutions here, some redirect farming and maybe a clearer sense of the definition should serve. For one thing, it seems like the definition is claiming that there's no overlap between this and Whole Plot Reference. You'll notice that both of the Akira Kurosawa films mentioned above would fit the criteria for both, so perhaps the admonition against such overlap is too strict?

edited 13th Aug '12 7:03:53 PM by EnragedFilia

Dragon Writer
So where do we draw a line? Or do we even draw one in the first place? Y'know, people called The Last Samurai "Dances With Japanese Wolves" and Avatar "Dances With Space Wolves"....
Total posts: 66
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