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[up]That's not the way missing episode is used. It has whole sections of non-episodic media, like films.
 
 27 Donaldthe Potholer, Tue, 18th Sep '12 11:48:18 AM from Somewhere in (not)Miami
[up]If it's a single film in a film series, it could qualify.

Good reason for renaming that trope to Lost Installment, however. (Again, I equate "work" to "series".)

EDIT: Ok, I get it. The "Film" item also includes instances of "scenes previously included in the final release but removed."

Well that's misuse of that Trope. It's the Inversion of Deleted Scene and should be launched as its own Trope. Perhaps Removed Scene, Missing Scene, or Lost Scene.

edited 18th Sep '12 11:53:38 AM by DonaldthePotholer

I was referring to movies like The Mountain Eagle. Most of the Literaature section isn't for serial media, either. Missing Episode is being used for various complete works or installments of serials that no longer exist as far as we know for the most part. You're right that it should be for when some installments, but not all, of a serialized work are missing. Perhaps we would be best off to make it that and create a new Lost Film trope for works that no longer exist at all.
 
I think the big question where we haven't reached consensus is whether we want missing episode to only cover cases where some episodes no longer exist or only exist as an audio track etc or if it should also cover cases where episodes exist, but aren't in the DVD, syndication package, Netflix package, etc. The latter has been claimed to match off-wiki use of the term, but also would overlap with Keep Circulating the Tapes a great deal.
 
I think preferred format is too vague. The formats need to be defined, if that's going to be the criteria. I'd count anything before DVD. Anything after that is playable on modern hardware.

But I'm not sure that should be the criteria. I think it should have more to do with how available it is. You know, like how abandonware works. That's when the tapes actually get circulated. No one cares if it's because it was never released to home video, whether it was released on an old format but never rereleased, or if it was released on, say, DVD, but is no longer for sale except in a few auctions on eBay. As long as it's not available from the creators and so rare as to effectively be impossible to purchase, I'd say it counts.

That's exactly how abandonware works, and that's what this trope seems to be: abandonware for media other than software.
 
[up]Do you think this trope should exclude video games, entirely, then? I'm inclined to say that it should be be for movies/TV only.
 
 32 Twentington, Tue, 13th Nov '12 5:51:43 PM from Somewhere Relationship Status: Desperate
Mustelidae = awesome
What else needs to be done here if anything?
Windmill, windmill for the land / Is everybody in?

[up]I don't think anything's been done. We need to get consensus on what exactly should be on the page. (And I think minimize overlap with some related pages) and clean up examples to match.
 
 34 crazyrabbits, Wed, 14th Nov '12 1:47:52 PM from Mississauga, ON, Canada
Crazyrabbits
So, is the problem with KCTT or ME? The OP isn't clear.

I agree that Missing Episode has several instances of non-episodic media, but (in the case of the Film subpage, at least), most of the examples revolve around works that have had their original negatives destroyed or become otherwise unsalvageable. In that respect, we need to clarify the parameters of that page, and (as Donald suggested) possibly port instances of "lost installments" over to a new page. I can make it if you want.

How is KCTT being misused?

 35 shoboni, Wed, 14th Nov '12 6:29:05 PM from Iowa, USA
I think the obscure/hard to find format might be a trope of it's own.
"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
[up][up]There are several categories of problem:

  • A lot of things are listed which are available on DVD, just not in the territory or language someone wants. These should be No Export for You.
  • A lot of things listed are available on DVD, but have special features which were laserdisc only. I was questioning whether we really want to mix these in with movies that aren't available.
 
Dragon Writer
I don't think the latter belongs, it sounds more like an Updated Re-release/Special Ultimate Collectors Edition + No Export for You.
 38 crazyrabbits, Mon, 19th Nov '12 8:21:06 AM from Mississauga, ON, Canada
Crazyrabbits
@Ace:

1) The first case would fit under NEFY, but many of those regional-only releases have also been off the market for an exorbitant amount of time, when there's no reason why it hasn't been released. It's a double-edged sword - while I do agree that they would benefit from being there, that doesn't necessarily make them exclusive to one page.

2) I can speak to that - I was the one who added that first section on sets of extras that never made the jump from one format to another. I considered making a new page for it, but didn't want to go through the whole process at the time just make a stub for something like "Keep Circulating The Extras". It seems to fit the mandate of unavailability, and is (mostly) comprised of cases where a large volume of material hasn't been available for a long time in any format, with no rationale by the rights holder why it's never been released.

The Star Wars examples under the Web Original page, for instance, have an incredible amount of material (documentaries, television specials, online promos/featurettes) that were never duplicated on any release, nor does Lucasfilm have much drive to release any of this stuff (some of which are full-fledged films on their own).

edited 19th Nov '12 8:26:14 AM by crazyrabbits

Piffy
Um, this trope sounds a lot like abandonware, except including non-software things.
Because underscores break everything: Working link to my Troper page
 40 crazyrabbits, Fri, 23rd Nov '12 1:38:49 AM from Mississauga, ON, Canada
Crazyrabbits
Abandonware is for instances of software having their copyright lapse, and the original owner not caring enough to renew it. Most of the KCTT examples are cases where the product could be distributed, but the copyright owner refuses to do so because of (a) not seeing a potential market, (b) only choosing to release it in one region, {c} they forget to put it back in print, (d) it costs too much to restore it, (e) rights issues, and several other reasons. It has some relation to abandonware, but it's a bit broader in terms of reasons.

edited 23rd Nov '12 1:39:48 AM by crazyrabbits

 41 Twentington, Mon, 17th Dec '12 8:04:37 PM from Somewhere Relationship Status: Desperate
Mustelidae = awesome
I'm not seeing anything resembling a consensus here. Is there anything that truly needs to be done? None of Ace of Sevens' problems seem like they don't fit the trope to me.
Windmill, windmill for the land / Is everybody in?

 42 crazyrabbits, Mon, 17th Dec '12 10:38:13 PM from Mississauga, ON, Canada
Crazyrabbits
Doesn't seem like it. This has been going on six months now. Can we lock?

edited 17th Dec '12 10:38:41 PM by crazyrabbits

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Total posts: 42
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