Needs Help: Western Animation.Toon Makers Sailor Moon

Total posts: [86]
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Since we don't have a work repair shop forum...

Why does this have a page? It's not a work. It's based on a 2 minute promo a company called Toon Makers showed when they were trying to obtain the rights to Sailor Moon. This never happened. The only thing we have is a two minute video. Not an adaptation, not a work. A What Could Have Been if a certain company had obtained Sailor Moon. It's interesting trivia, but not a work, and certainly not one needing its own page.

Propose a cut.

edited 23rd Jul '12 8:57:47 AM by lu127

What goes around, comes around
what goes up, must come down
In uffish thought
The page is impressivly long given the lack of material to cover. Supporting cut.
3 jkbeta23rd Jul 2012 10:51:02 AM from right behind you , Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Supporting cut; the interesting bits can always be moved to the Sailor Moon trivia pages.
So, you're saying it's not noteworthy?
It's not a work. A 2 minute promo which never got off the ground is not a work. It's a What Could Have Been scenario.
What goes around, comes around
what goes up, must come down
At what point does something become a work?
When it's actually published or stated for publishing, whether on the internet or somewhere else. This was never published—it was an idea Toon Makers pitched into Toei to obtain the rights to Sailor Moon. It wasn't even cancelled. It says so right on the page.

edited 23rd Jul '12 11:33:03 AM by lu127

What goes around, comes around
what goes up, must come down
8 Komodin23rd Jul 2012 11:39:19 AM from Windy Hill Zone , Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator
Cut it. It's essentially like having a work page for a commercial.
Which would be a bad thing why? If it's informative, well written, and has a good trope list, I don't understand the problem.
Because it doesn't even have a name? The name is an amalgamation of the company called Toon Makers and the show it was supposed to adapt. It's not even its real name. It doesn't have a name because it doesn't exist. It's as if we made a separate page for a Nightwish song which the band never finished writing.

edited 23rd Jul '12 11:46:03 AM by lu127

What goes around, comes around
what goes up, must come down
The point of the wiki is to be informative and to catalogue useful information about works of fiction. This is a page about a work of fiction (albeit only 17-minute One-Episode Wonder), and it's useful and informative. Sounds like we're on track to me.

Do you have a problem with the page that isn't just a policy dispute?
It is not a 17 minute episode. It is a 2 minute promo. The 17 minute episode was never shown, therefore it is impossible to catalogue.

We do not catalogue works that do not exist. This was a pitch made by a company. Not a separate work.

What goes around, comes around
what goes up, must come down
Hm, I seem to remember Fast Eddie be willing to trope a work that was nothing but a hoax so there's a little precedent for what abk is talking about. On the other hand, this article is much too short to qualify like that one did (and it turned out to be real anyway) especially when you consider that it has listings like Old Shame. I don't see why we need this, just toss it out.
14 ccoa23rd Jul 2012 12:42:03 PM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
I actually agree with abk. Promo or not, it has tropes that are genuinely present, not just speculation, and enough that it isn't just a stub. It hurts nothing to keep it.

It's not like having a page for an unfinished song, because a song's tropes could be put on the Creator's page. This has nothing we could fold it into.

edited 23rd Jul '12 12:43:33 PM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
15 Xtifr23rd Jul 2012 02:07:51 PM , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
If it's actually unreleased, we might want to move it to Darth Wiki with the other unreleased works (even though that's mostly used for Fan Fic).
The polyamorous time-traveler may have trouble with a pair o' doxies.
@Lu. It does exist. We don't have access to it, but we do have information on it, and access to parts of it. It's a similar situation to The Trojan Cycle.

If this page were all just speculation, or if it were full of made-up examples about episodes that were never made, that would be a good reason not to have the page, but these are all verifiable facts about a cartoon that we know exists.
No such thing as notability and it's important as a demonstration of an extreme case of some adaptation tropes. This needs to stay.
18 helterskelter23rd Jul 2012 07:48:33 PM , Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I say keep it. It's interesting, it's noteworthy in some circles, and it's not a stub.
If there are any examples that weren't part of the promo, I guess those should be cut. The page should just be about the released promo.

Actually, it says that the footage was taken from an anime convention. Was this released, or "leaked"?
[up]The full video shows that it was one of the producers giving a talk, so I think it counts as released.
We do indeed have pages for things that are not works: behold! (you think two minutes isn't long enough to build a page on? How about 15 words?). I would contend that a page for a cancelled work, or even (as mentioned) a particularly troperiffic advertisement could be at least as valid as that one.
In uffish thought
Troping the ad itself is fine, but I think tropes shouldn't be applied to how that version of Sailor Moon would have been if it had been released. The page needs to be edited so that it's just about the promo rather than the potential work.
Wow people are debating one of the core principles of the TV Tropes.... No Such Thing As Notability remember? What's become of this place?
24 Ghilz25th Jul 2012 02:34:35 PM from Canada, or the Moon , Relationship Status: Drift compatible
[up][up] Agreed
25 MadMan40009631st Jul 2012 08:19:04 PM from Massachusetts , Relationship Status: My own grandpa
[up][up]Gracie Lizzie, that's the smartest thing I've heard in this whole thread. Seriously, we sound like friggin' Wikipedia here.

edited 31st Jul '12 8:19:43 PM by MadMan400096

Catch me where? See my profile!

Page Action: Toon Makers Sailor Moon
13th Sep '12 7:52:36 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?

Total posts: 86
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