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Scottish Independence
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Scottish Independence:

 151 Game Chainsaw, Fri, 12th Oct '12 11:53:17 AM from sunshine and rainbows!
The Shadows Devour You.
True enough. I don't have anything in principle against 16 year olds voting, I just seem to remember doing a lot of growing up between 16 and 18.
 152 Deviant Braeburn, Fri, 12th Oct '12 6:08:01 PM from Dysfunctional California
Wandering Jew
Honestly, if we let 16 year olds vote, this country would be reduced to ashes by the end of the decade.

edited 16th Oct '12 4:24:50 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Everything is Possible.

But some things are more Probable than others.
JEBAGEDDON 2016

 153 Radical Taoist, Fri, 12th Oct '12 6:50:31 PM from the #GUniverse
scratching at .8, just hopin'
That's because we can't be bothered to educate our 16 year olds. Have you seen how much damage our 76 year olds do?
 154 Inhopelessguy, Sat, 13th Oct '12 12:11:01 PM from Birmingham, Greater Europe Relationship Status: Less than three
💩💩💩💩💩&#1
Someone create a separate thread. :p

I watch your inhibitions fall to the floor.

You go to lock the door.

What should we~ do~?

 155 The Bat Pencil, Mon, 15th Oct '12 7:03:45 AM from Glasgow, Scotland Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
Game on, then.

The agreement itself.

edited 15th Oct '12 7:48:43 AM by TheBatPencil

I couldn't possibly comment.
 156 pagad, Mon, 15th Oct '12 12:53:53 PM from perfidious Albion Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Sneering Imperialist
I have to wonder what the fuck Cameron is playing at. He's given Salmond every possible advantage.
 157 Inhopelessguy, Mon, 15th Oct '12 1:10:24 PM from Birmingham, Greater Europe Relationship Status: Less than three
💩💩💩💩💩&#1
Indeed. There must be a catch. Somewhere.

I watch your inhibitions fall to the floor.

You go to lock the door.

What should we~ do~?

 158 Silasw, Mon, 15th Oct '12 1:23:10 PM from UK :( Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Globalist Bunny
Isnít the fact that it's a strait Yes or No, his win? Since if there was a devo max option lots of people who are not after full independence might go for that. Now those people are probably going to vote no.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael

"If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
 159 Chalkos, Mon, 15th Oct '12 2:50:44 PM from The Internets
Sidequest Proliferator
It depends. Salmond is betting more of those people will vote Yes than No. Cameron is making the opposing bet.

 160 Caissas Death Angel, Mon, 15th Oct '12 3:08:19 PM from Dumfries, SW Scotland Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
Yep, it's not an easy question to answer.

Personally, I think it plays into Salmond's favour. I think many SNP-voting Scots would prefer devo-max over independance, and that that option would pull in a lot of other voters who specifically do not vote SNP because of this issue. By gunning for the devo-max option, Salmond appeases those voters and can legitimately claim he tried and failed, but ultimately gets the outcome he wants.

For what it's worth, I'd be on the fence about devo-max if it were on the ballot paper, but will definitely vote independance now that it's not, so I'm one of those people I just described (I'm also an SNP voter anyway)
My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
 161 The Bat Pencil, Mon, 15th Oct '12 7:22:50 PM from Glasgow, Scotland Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
Of course, had Cameron made an issue out of anything then he's made himself the Westminster Tory who is trying to deliver a diktat to Scotland. In Scotland only Maggie Thatcher, the bad guy from Braveheart and Geoff Hurst are less popular than that guy.

It's not a battle they can win. Their best shot is in campaigning, but anything Cameron does to get himself involved is just going to turn people away and over to the "Yes" camp, but with a general election in 2015 (that we all know he's going to lose in Scotland) he has to get involved at some point.

He can't let Labour and the Lib Dems do the job for him when he's actively running against them. Even if he could, those parties are as unpopular as his own right now (and even more incompetent) and have no chance of beating Salmond.

It's very much the perfect storm for Salmond. Unpopular Tory government talking unpopular fiscal policies in a time of economic trouble and no real Labour or Lib Dem opposition in sight. He couldn't have scripted this.

edited 15th Oct '12 7:23:24 PM by TheBatPencil

I couldn't possibly comment.
 162 pagad, Tue, 16th Oct '12 1:16:03 AM from perfidious Albion Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Sneering Imperialist
What I don't understand is why Cameron didn't plump for devo-max himself. Keeping Scotland in the Union whilst assuaging nationalist sentiment in an electorate that largely hates his party would be a win-win, surely.
 163 Deviant Braeburn, Tue, 16th Oct '12 1:37:12 AM from Dysfunctional California
Wandering Jew
Is it possible that David Cameron secretly wants Scotland to succeed, so that The Conservative Party will have power in Britain?
Everything is Possible.

But some things are more Probable than others.
JEBAGEDDON 2016

 164 Tam H 70, Tue, 16th Oct '12 1:54:55 AM from 合計虐殺 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War ALWAYS changes. Man does not.
The Conservatives? Having ANY power after the next election? Possible. Then again, so are huge formations of flying pigs in Israeli Airforce colours doing circuits of Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport.

CMD may have the issue of the Tory scum gaining power again at the election after the next one on his mind but I doubt very much that he is actually believing it will be possible.
 165 Game Chainsaw, Tue, 16th Oct '12 3:04:40 AM from sunshine and rainbows!
The Shadows Devour You.
Actually I'm pretty sure it's impossible for the flying pigs incident to happen, as pigs can't fly. While it is at least physically possible for Cameron to win an election; in fact, there's precedent.
 166 3of 4, Tue, 16th Oct '12 3:56:34 AM from Five Seconds in the Future. Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Feeble Turtle Duck
Impossible for pigs to fly? Do we know what some mad Israeli genetist is working on in his lab? Flying kamikaze pigs? *does not make the obvious joke*

LMage: NO ONE ASKED FOR YOUR WITCHCRAFT THREE
 167 Tam H 70, Tue, 16th Oct '12 4:31:41 AM from 合計虐殺 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War ALWAYS changes. Man does not.
[up][up]Which precedent? CMD did not win the last election. He was handed power by that lickspittle prick Clegg. (Whose name is a slang word in many dialects for "an irritating little mosquito", btw)
 168 Greenmantle, Tue, 16th Oct '12 4:33:42 AM from Albion Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
[up]

John Major? Margaret Thatcher, perhaps?

By the way, would you have held another General Election, or gone for a "Rainbow Coalition" of Labour and Nationalist Parties?

edited 16th Oct '12 4:35:30 AM by Greenmantle

 169 Tam H 70, Tue, 16th Oct '12 4:51:10 AM from 合計虐殺 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War ALWAYS changes. Man does not.
New election in six months from the date of the failed one. Simples.
 170 Greenmantle, Tue, 16th Oct '12 5:00:27 AM from Albion Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
^

Six Months? Six Weeks or less!
 171 The Bat Pencil, Tue, 16th Oct '12 9:25:20 AM from Glasgow, Scotland Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
 172 pagad, Tue, 16th Oct '12 9:41:11 AM from perfidious Albion Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Sneering Imperialist
Federated UK? Ooh, I like that idea.

edited 16th Oct '12 9:41:27 AM by pagad

 173 terlwyth, Tue, 16th Oct '12 9:48:41 AM from Berzerkeley, Kalifornien Relationship Status: Not war
 174 Game Chainsaw, Tue, 16th Oct '12 10:11:15 AM from sunshine and rainbows!
The Shadows Devour You.
That has nothing to do with America being a federation, and everything to do with it having two elected houses, and then a president on top of that who can veto things. That's like... three different levels of gridlock. In Britain the house of commons is all that is required to pass a law... and the Scottish house of commons doesn't even have the house of lords.

Needless to say legislation can get passed with a lot less fuss here.

Also we suffer from gerrymandering too. Constituency boundaries regularly get shifted in support of the ruling party.

The 2000 election was something else entirely though.

edited 16th Oct '12 10:12:52 AM by GameChainsaw

 175 terlwyth, Tue, 16th Oct '12 10:56:24 AM from Berzerkeley, Kalifornien Relationship Status: Not war
The gravestone has been stolen
None of that would happen if the party in power picked the President, and in many states it's the state parties in power that draw the districts in weird forms to put the opposition at a disadvantage.

A Unitary government doesn't have such problems, ...except the coalition kind that is, but even then
Nichts hier zu sehen
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