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Misused: Creators Pet get usage counts

Not that I have any sway here, but it seems the problem is the structure of examples instead of listing the pet and explaining how it meets the criteria it is more like it is just a place to complain about the character. I suggest changing the examples to be more like this

  • Show
    • Character name
    1. How it meets the criteria "Hated by fans"
    2. How it meets the criteria "Loved by creators"
    3. How it meets the criteria "in important scenes"
    4. How it meets the criteria "Talked up by other characters.

Keep in mind I am not saying do this, but that it seems like a good way to solve the problem.

edited 8th Sep '12 7:18:04 PM by notsomeone

Dulcy may still count, most fans admit not being fond of her, or apathetic to her at best. She breaks some mythos of the show a little, appears randomly and is tolerated and liked by everyone in-universe dispite being nearly as incompetent as Butt Monkey Antoine. Her only break from the trope may be she isn't actually all that involved in the show (yeah Rotor and Bunnie appear less, but that seems more due to the below example) though she makes a token appearance in nearly episode and also has A Day in the Limelight. Ben Hurst (who wrote most of the episodes following her debut) also admited to being fond of her.

Sally Acorn is a borderline example, since she was Hurst's favorite, took up a ridiculous of spotlight and utilities from other characters and was starting to gain Canon Sue traits. However since she is more polarizing with fans and still has a plausible fandom, she may count more as just a Spotlight-Stealing Squad.

Mr Krabs may also be a more straight example. He takes up a lot of episodes nowadays and most of the time I hear from a Spongebob fan about him, it's usually about what an unbearable Jerk Ass he's become.

 103 nrjxll, Sun, 7th Oct '12 6:08:56 PM Relationship Status: Not war
I'm going to propose the idea of a dedicated Special Efforts thread for this again.

 104 Septimus Heap, Mon, 8th Oct '12 7:04:42 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Or move this thread over, since we have had much example discussion here.

 105 Rebochan, Tue, 9th Oct '12 6:00:17 PM from Soaking up Rays
I've got Sunshine!
I'm not opposed to that, but I obviously don't have that power.
http://www.f-d-r.com/blog/ - Filthy Digital Ramblings, musings on media.
I'd like to discuss the subject of Paul from Pokémon.

The aspects as I see them:
  • He is Ash's main rival in the Sinnoh region. He recycles most of Gary's character arc (dismissive of Ash, wins their early confrontations, starts to treat him better once Ash starts proving himself late in the region), but considerably more no-nonsense.
  • He is also representative of "Stop Having Fun" Guys. He values Pokemon that prove themselves and is dismissive of those that don't, to the point of giving some of them away. This comes to a head in his treatment of Chimchar, an initially weak combatant with the impressive trait to become incredibly strong when sufficiently injured. He sees potential in this and attempts to harness this without success... usually by making Chimchar injured first. This is definitely a Kick the Dog situation for him, and Ash and other characters call him out for it. Some consider it to be crossing the Moral Event Horizon.
  • The show treats him as a rival and as a successful trainer regardless of his methods. Champion Cynthia repeatedly states her opinion that Ash and Paul will both grow stronger and learn from each other as they continue to interact.
  • Paul loses in the end, defeated by the very same Chimchar he cast off. He is disappointed but acknowledges that Ash earned the victory, and departs on good terms. He does not receive a crushing loss that destroys his worldview and there isn't much in the way of schadenfreude. His change in personality, where it exists, is subtle and attention isn't called to it.
  • Current head writer Atsuhiro Tomioka has acknowledged that Paul is one of his favorite characters.

Here's the problem. Paul has a fandom. He also has a hatedom. The hatedom, naturally, thinks the fandom is insane. At least one member has repeatedly removed comments defending Paul from this wiki. He has wound up on all the Scrappy and Creators Pet pages as a result, and it should be noted that a search on Atsuhiro Tomioka's name on this site will result in nothing but complaints about how he likes Paul to the point where he refuses to acknowledge that he's more of an antagonist than a rival, sometimes followed by criticism of the other characters on the show for refusing to treat him like a disgrace to Pokemon training.

I don't know if this qualifies him as a Creator's Pet or not. He's liked by the creator, he has a hatedom, and he has a reputation among them as a Karma Houdini for the things he did wrong. But at the same time, he also has a fandom, and despite them often being added to Wall Banger and DMOS, his episodes are actually popular among most of the show's viewers even if they don't like him. I don't think a Broken Base situation can qualify as Creator's Pet, can it?

(The worst thing? I'm not even a Paul fan.)

Thta is an interesting question that you have brought on. Personally, I would feel that not putting him on the Creator's Pet page is the best solution as...well, can one really be a Scrappy if one is a popular AND hated character?

edited 21st Oct '12 3:16:07 AM by KSonik

 108 shoboni, Sun, 21st Oct '12 7:59:26 PM from Iowa, USA
[up]I Agree, if a character has both a strong fandom and hatedom I'd say they'd be more Love It or Hate It than a scrappy

edited 21st Oct '12 8:00:49 PM by shoboni

"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
 109 nrjxll, Wed, 24th Oct '12 12:12:13 AM Relationship Status: Not war
Okay, seriously: how does one go about moving this to Special Efforts?

 110 Septimus Heap, Wed, 24th Oct '12 8:35:54 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
By a holler.

 111 Fighteer, Wed, 24th Oct '12 8:36:39 AM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
With Mod Hat On
We're ready to make this about cleanup? Righty-ho! Movin'!
Neoclassicism, AKA the Tinkerbell school of economics.
It's super effective.
Kate from Lost. Not necessarily to dispute her being a pet of the creators, just that the reasons given ("pretty much entirely to be part of a love triangle") are actually true. I don't really recall the love triangle really taking hold until season 2, or even 3, and that seemed to stop after Sawyer jumped through time and Jack and Kate were rescued after season 4.

And oh god, regardless of if it's valid, the World of Warcraft bullets are all over the place.

Exposition Fairy characters and Super Mario Sunshine's FLUDD. Are they even acknowledged as characters outside of maybe the beginning?

The Final Fantasy XI example just sounds like "a difficult side-boss".

And did Homestar Runner's Crack Stuntman really appear in many episodes?

It's super effective.
Also regarding Stuntman, he doesn't seem to fit "talked up by other characters" OR "being put into big scenes". On a nearly weekly updating website he's appeared in (not counting episodes where his "character" Gunhaver appears) four episodes over two years, plus a fairly brief voiceover (as himself) in two other episodes.

 114 Septimus Heap, Sat, 22nd Dec '12 8:34:45 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
YMMV.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic has an argument going on between Some New Guy and Truro about whether Bab Seed fits the trope Creator's Pet. The entry in question:

 115 Mag Bas, Wed, 26th Dec '12 2:07:17 PM from In my house
Someone put a fifth requisite: "Never suffers the consequences of their actions (Karma Houdini)". I guess not existed any discussion about it.

 116 Fighteer, Wed, 26th Dec '12 2:12:12 PM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
I removed it. I also locked the main article and directed discussion here.

edited 26th Dec '12 2:15:22 PM by Fighteer

Neoclassicism, AKA the Tinkerbell school of economics.
 117 Septimus Heap, Fri, 28th Dec '12 9:45:43 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Can we please get a verdict on the My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic example? It's about to turn into an Edit War.

 118 Calnos, Sat, 29th Dec '12 1:12:09 PM from Nowhere Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Jossed
For the Babs Seed thing, lets go through the criteria.

I for one wouldn't say Babs is a Scrappy, she gets plenty of fanart and at most fans have mixed opinions about her like a lot of characters in the show. She hasn't quite reached Ensemble Darkhorse status (surprising, I know), but I can think of a few characters (from what I can tell, anyways) that are less liked (Prince Blueblood, Twist, the teenage dragons from "Dragon Quest")

The only character to really praise her is Apple Bloom, who calls her "my favorite cousin!" in "Apple Family Reunion". The whole point of "One Bad Apple" was ultimately the two becoming friends. This is more continuity than pointless shilling.

  • Loved (or worshipped) by the writers

This is hard to determine. I haven't read enough tweets and interviews for me to be convinced that the writing staff thinks Babs is the best character ever. Especially since she's only been in two episodes, which leads us to...

Again, she's only been in two episodes. The first was her debut episode in which she's the main conflict (and pulls a Heel-Face Turn at the end). The second episode is "Apple Family Reunion". Her debut episode established her as an Apple cousin, so she was expected to attend the Family Reunion. Now, there were some (including myself) who were a little disappointed that another Apple cousin, Braeburn (who debuted in a Season 1 episode, and didn't appear again until this episode), didn't get any speaking lines where as Babs did. However, there's a couple of logical reasons for this.

One, both Babs Seed's debut episode "One Bad Apple" and "Apple Family Reunion" were by the same writer Cindy Morrow. Braeburn's episode "Over a Barrel" was written by someone else. It makes sense for Morrow to take the opportunity to flesh out the character she herself wrote the debut episode for.

The other main reason is that ultimately, Babs Seed is a supporting character for Apple Bloom, one of the main characters and a Kid-Appeal Character. Indeed, Babs spends the entirety of "Apple Family Reunion" at AB's side. Babs doesn't have more screentime in the episode to give Babs more screentime, she has more screentime to give Apple Bloom more screentime.

Honestly? If any character in Friendship Is Magic is a Creator's Pet, I'd say its Apple Bloom, but she's far too popular to be one. Must be because she's adorable.
It's super effective.
Are there any arguments defending Crack Stuntman in Homestar Runner as this? Going by "The Next Epi-Snowed", he's certainly not talked up by anyone, and his role is even unceremoniously replaced. His only other real interaction on the website (i.e. not talking to the audience) is in "original", and that ends with Strong Bad groaning.

I can't see any evidence from the wiki (to emphasise, year-round near-weekly updates up until 2009) that he is used "so much".

edited 29th Dec '12 4:39:32 PM by OldManHoOh

 120 shoboni, Thu, 3rd Jan '13 6:12:44 AM from Iowa, USA
Yeah, I'm going to say no on Babs, she's only been in two episodes and one of them was a fairly small supporting role.

edited 3rd Jan '13 6:14:16 AM by shoboni

"It's not that simple. We are all both, good and evil, we have rage and compassion, we have love and hate...murder and forgiveness."
I agree about Babs Seed, two episodes is not enough for a creator's pet.

 122 Trigger Loaded, Sat, 5th Jan '13 2:03:31 PM from Canada, eh? Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
$50 a day, plus expenses
Agreed on removing Crack Stuntman.
Don't take life too seriously. It's only a temporary situation.
 123 Mag Bas, Tue, 8th Jan '13 1:58:29 PM from In my house
Gwen Cooper in Torchwood was put in the Live Action TV page.

edited 8th Jan '13 1:58:51 PM by MagBas

 124 Hamburger Time, Tue, 8th Jan '13 2:23:36 PM from Right behind you
Revenge of the Lemurs
Definitely remove Crack. It's actually a recurring joke in the cartoons that nobody but him likes him because he's such a spotlight-hog.

I'd also argue against Crow Hogan. He has loads of fans (though in a fandom that large I'm not sure if they outnumber the haters or not), and they can even be found on sites that generally dislike the series as a whole. As well, there's pretty strong evidence that he was originally intended to be a one-arc character, and that his increased prominence came from the card game executives once his deck became an Ensemble Darkhorse in the real-life game.
 125 Fighteer, Tue, 8th Jan '13 2:34:23 PM from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
[up][up] The hell? Isn't Gwen the protagonist?
Neoclassicism, AKA the Tinkerbell school of economics.
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