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Permission to alter the Planet Of Hats trope: Planet Of Hats get usage counts

 1 Shrikesnest, Fri, 29th Jun '12 12:14:29 PM from my nest of thorns
Small, vicious
Courtesy Link

This is a sci-fi-flavored trope about entire planets whose inhabitants share, essentially, a single personality, or at least a major personality trait, generally for the purposes of allegory. The trope also has some subtext about comparing this to the cultural diversity of Earth, and a few cousin tropes about what humanity's "hat" is in such a context.

On to my proposition: I propose that we expand the trope a little in order to apply to fantasy works, which often have a similar approach to the various fantasy races that populate their world. I think they're close enough that creating a whole new trope is unnecessary. In that vein, I want to ask permission to do the following:

  • Adding Race Of Hats or Culture Of Hats as a redirect
  • Rewriting the main description slightly to make it broader and include this functionality

I look forward to feedback on this matter.
"Pale Ebenezer thought it wrong to fight, but Roaring Bill (who killed him) thought it right." - Hillaire Belloc, The Pacifist
Seems logical. Proud Warrior Race Guy and Proud Scholar Race Guy are currently listed as subtropes, but that really only makes sense if the trope is broad enough to include Races Of Hats.

(this should probably be in TRS?)

This is a TRS issue.

 4 Shrikesnest, Fri, 29th Jun '12 12:48:29 PM from my nest of thorns
Small, vicious
Should it be? I don't really think Planet of Hats is broken, per se. I just wanted to expand it instead of launching a separate trope. Hmm...
"Pale Ebenezer thought it wrong to fight, but Roaring Bill (who killed him) thought it right." - Hillaire Belloc, The Pacifist
 5 Willbyr, Fri, 29th Jun '12 7:22:57 PM from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
With Mod Hat On
Any time you want to make a change to a trope's meaning/parameters, it needs to go through TRS. I've moved the thread.
 6 nrjxll, Fri, 29th Jun '12 7:57:04 PM Relationship Status: Not war
The trope already is closer to Race Of Hats then Planet of Hats, really. I'm not sure how much any changes are needed.

The examples and wicks are already using it to describe things besides just planets, but the description could be changed to be a bit less sci-fi specific, and to make it clear that Country of Hat and Race of Hat are just as common.

So essentially it's a trope transplant/expansion to how people are using it anyway, and the original trope isn't much to have anyway?
The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.
By the way, what a rambling midsection, that intro. "The concept of the Planet of Hats has become so ingrained into popular culture that whenever an alien race is portrayed as not being uniform, identical, and homogeneous it typically results in complaints." Really? When? "If the Hat involves the Idiot Ball, you end up with an Idiot Plot." What? "Possibly Truth in Television, with people saying that all mice like cheese, all dogs hate cats, all Humans Are Bastards/Humans Are Special, etc." Again, what?

I support widening the definition. That's how I understood the trope anyway, but the clearer the description, the better.
It's perfectly possible to admire building a cannon to destroy the moon, whilst lamenting the act of destruction.
[up][up] Yeah, there's some editing that needs doing. But "If the Hat involves the Idiot Ball, you end up with an Idiot Plot." is good tho, if it's saying what I think it's saying. A person from a planet of hats is likely to follow their hat so closely that their actions get everyone else in trouble, like the Proud Warrior Race Guy guy rushing headfirst into a fight instead of thinking things through.

 12 nrjxll, Sat, 30th Jun '12 2:07:41 AM Relationship Status: Not war
[up][up][up]Yeah, that stuff has to go. In particular, I have never seen anybody complaining about a work not using Planet of Hats.

I guess I see what abk 0100 is saying, but I certainly wouldn't have based on the actual sentence, so that needs a rewrite. Axe the rest.

[up][up]That's not Idiot Plot, though, that's Hat Before Reason. An Idiot Plot, according to the description, hingest on the main characters dribbling the Idiot Ball just to make the plot "work". A Planet of Idiots are very rarely the main characters. Still, the tropes may overlap, but it's nothing that necessarily leads to one another.

edited 30th Jun '12 4:46:12 AM by Feather7603

The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.
fair enough

edit: The Idiot Plot page has this line in the description:

In fact, author Damon Knight originally coined the term "second-order idiot plot" to refer to a science fiction story that features a fictional society that can only exist if everyone living there is an idiot.

That's probably what that line is supposed to be talking about. Should be changed to make it more clear.

edited 30th Jun '12 3:23:47 PM by abk0100

 15 DRCEQ, Sat, 30th Jun '12 8:43:07 PM Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
MOVE, B****! GET OUT THE WAY!
How would the proposition of expanding beyond Sci-fi into Fantasy be any different from Fantasy Counterpart Culture?

edited 30th Jun '12 8:44:20 PM by DRCEQ

3DS FC: 2981-6375-5798
Compare the Star Trek section on each page. Planet of Hats includes examples like "Klingons are all proud warriors." Fantasy Counterpart Culture is "Klingon are stand-ins for the Soviets."

Or, for the fantasy version "Dwarves are all proud warriors" and "Dwarves are based on ancient Norse culture."

edited 30th Jun '12 11:48:33 PM by abk0100

I don't think counterpart cultures count as hats. They're far too varied and nuanced. Stereotypes of cultures may count, though, as they're just taking a few traits and exaggerating them.
The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.
I'm not certain there needs to be much modification to change this from Planet of Hats to, say, Country Of Hats, or Race Of Hats or whatever redirects needed. I never felt the trope write-up was really restricted to Sci-Fi, so I don't see the problem as far as that is concerned.

As far as the other concerns mentioned on the thread, I agree with the concerns. It doesn't need much work as far as I can tell, just eliminating a couple of paragraphs that are just nattering. Aside from the two paragraphs mentioned, are there any other issues people see with the page, in general or as far as expanding the trope.
 
 19 lu 127, Wed, 19th Sep '12 3:28:27 AM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
Clocking.
迷子の足音消えた
代わりに祈りの唄
We don't need to change the name, just make a note it isn't necessarily a literal planet anymore than it's a literal hat. The trope was large developed in the early days of major seafaring with stories of other countries or island tribal cultures having hats.
 
Ecce Homo Superior
[up]That sounds like a good idea.
(it's David Bowie)
World's Toughest Milkman
[up][up]Seems reasonable to me. Although the definition is already a little mind-numbingly long.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 23 nrjxll, Sun, 23rd Sep '12 10:28:40 AM Relationship Status: Not war
On that note, I still think this stuff

By the way, what a rambling midsection, that intro. "The concept of the Planet of Hats has become so ingrained into popular culture that whenever an alien race is portrayed as not being uniform, identical, and homogeneous it typically results in complaints." Really? When? "If the Hat involves the Idiot Ball, you end up with an Idiot Plot." What? "Possibly Truth in Television, with people saying that all mice like cheese, all dogs hate cats, all Humans Are Bastards/Humans Are Special, etc." Again, what?

should be gotten rid of.

Ecce Homo Superior
[up]I agree, that stuff could go.
(it's David Bowie)
Deleted those parts from the description.

Total posts: 31
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