Needs Help: Unfortunate Implications get usage counts

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126 SeptimusHeap13th Jul 2012 04:46:02 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
Made the sandbox: Sandbox.Unfortunate Implications

It sill needs some tweaking, but when it's clean, we can swap it into Unfortunate Implications, cut the subpages and search for indexable tropes and the necessary citations.
Well, a quick glance and it's already leagues better.
The Internet misuses, abuses, and overuses everything.
128 Renelia19th Jul 2012 11:04:04 AM from Inside a box
It looks a lot better I must say. Good work!
I'd like one of the sentences to be one person's thoughts not one person's thinking, but it's no big deal.
BTW: what if your proof is a book?
@Septimus:

Sandbox page looks fine, but... are there really that few salvageable examples??? I clearly see more examples with enough substance to stay (Millenium trilogy, "Blubber" etc.) Is example lifting still in progress?
132 SeptimusHeap26th Jul 2012 04:15:27 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
We require citations here. I was taking those examples who already had one (no, just a weblink isn't a citation). If you want to add more examples for which you've found a citation, go ahead.
133 SeptimusHeap31st Jul 2012 02:17:23 PM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
Bumping here. Barring last-hour comments, I'll swap in the sandbox and cutlist the subpages.
134 SeptimusHeap1st Aug 2012 10:51:40 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
OK, cutlisted subpages, examples put back on /Main/ and added a note in the source and the discussion.

Now we just need the index.
135 ccoa1st Aug 2012 11:38:04 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Shouldn't we redirect those to the main Unfortunate Implications page? Some of them have quite a few inbounds.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
136 SeptimusHeap1st Aug 2012 11:44:24 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
Huh. Wasn't thinking of that.
Maybe I'm missing part of the discussion, but I honestly still don't understand how someone is supposed to "cite proof" for something as opinion-based as this trope.

The main rule of thumb here is that we can't post something if it's just our own (or someone else's) opinion, but it's going to be someone's opinion no matter what, isn't it? That's the nature of the trope. (It kind of goes along with it being YMMV)

If we can't add our own opinion or somebody else's opinion, whose can we add? What would be an acceptable place to cite proof from?

Can someone give me an example?

138 SeptimusHeap20th Aug 2012 10:47:06 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
The proof is proof that it's a widely-held opinion. Not just one person's imagination. We have opinions here in YMMV, not Troper Tales. These opinions must be notable. One person's opinion isn't usually notable.
139 AnotherDuck20th Aug 2012 11:37:33 AM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
While I wasn't involved in the discussion, isn't it more about the Unfortunate Implication actually causing some kind of controversy, and the citation is there to prevent singular opinions that don't cause that controversy?

edited 20th Aug '12 11:38:24 AM by AnotherDuck

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140 SeptimusHeap20th Aug 2012 11:39:27 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
[up]That too. It's basically a device to keep complaining and nonsense off.
How about just make this page define the trope, and leave examples in the respective media franchise's own YMMV page?
Yeah, that avatar's a 'Shop of my real face.
142 SeptimusHeap1st Sep 2012 11:01:04 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
^We have decided not to do that. And we need the indedx here, people.
Does the same citation standard hold for works YMMV pages?
144 SeptimusHeap21st Oct 2012 01:29:00 PM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
Iunno. Don't expect enforcement of that to work (and would it be possible to create a functionality to prevent people from potholing certain tropes?), and we still need that index.
145 BearyScary21st Oct 2012 04:12:30 PM , Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
I think we should enact some kind of policy where UI are only listed if they have been acknowledged outside of TV Tropes. Otherwise, we'll have some examples that are just personal anecdotes from tropers (although that wouldn't mean that certain things aren't offensive, obviously). I think this is a policy that should also be enacted for other sensitive topics/tropes.
""Fought Nazi Vampires like Badasses" is a fine thing to have engraved on your tombstone." - Shiny Tsukkomi
Now that it's been a few months, I can say I'm not really liking the certification standard. I know a lot of people were upset with "standing on head to see UI" examples, but I still say people should be allowed their own interpretations of certain things (not to mention I think this is the only YMMV that has this rule which kinda defeats the purpose of YMMV. Anyway.) I know we're trying to drown the negativity, but we're not a fan site either so we shouldn't be "protecting" works from any sort of criticism, so to speak.

I'm only for a certification/link on work YMMV pages to avoid natter and edit wars in those pages.
147 AnotherDuck29th Oct 2012 05:16:17 PM from Stockholm , Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
It's not about protecting the works from criticism. It's about protecting the wiki from nonsense.

Yes, people are allowed their own interpretations, but the main wiki isn't for speculation and troper tales. That's where those kinds of things would belong. Many pages have some kind of loose fandom consensus definition for YMMV tropes, but that apparently didn't work here. I don't think anyone really wants to have [citation needed] added anywhere on the wiki, but if that's the only thing that keeps it decent without deleting all examples or locking the page, then it's not a bad solution, all things considered.
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148 nrjxll29th Oct 2012 11:19:51 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
[up]This.
149 SeptimusHeap5th Nov 2012 07:38:21 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
Ok, I've added an index here. Is there anything else to do here, or can I ask for closure? Having threads that can't get any attention around doesn't help anyone.
150 nrjxll5th Nov 2012 07:45:58 PM , Relationship Status: Not war
[up]Well, there's the citation thing.

Page Action: Unfortunate Implications
26th Jun '12 12:00:22 PM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
The issue at stake is that the page as-is includes many nonsensical examples and is prime territory for edit wars.

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