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Misused: Expy get usage counts
Deadlock Clock: 13th Sep '13 11:59 PM

Total posts: [225]
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126 Anomalocaris2017th Jan 2013 06:25:31 PM from Mr. Bones' Wild Ride , Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
Chocolate Pudding
Merging Captain Ersatz and Expy together into just "Expy" as applicable for characters that are derivative off of another and exist to function in a similar role, especially- but not exclusively- in the context of being created by the same creator. That seems acceptable, no?

However, we do need to solve the misuse of it being used as Fan Myopia, people seeking excuses to reference their favorite show on unrelated matters just by saying characters with tangenital connections are clearly derivative.

As I said earlier I think we should do something about Shout-Out too. A lot of Shout-Out examples I've seen amount to "Shout-Out: In this show, People Sit on Chairs. Hmm, where have we seen that before?"

Really, it's the same issue, just the former is for characters and the latter is for premises.

edited 17th Jan '13 6:26:06 PM by Anomalocaris20

The EYE is protecting Exor!!

General of the Ridley Facepalm Army.
Flower Fairy
I suggest that Expy be made Trivia, since if a character is based on another character in another work by creator's admission, that would be a Trivia issue.

I think this thread has gone on long enough. Can I make an appropriate crowner for this issue?
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128 Anomalocaris2017th Jan 2013 07:25:06 PM from Mr. Bones' Wild Ride , Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
Chocolate Pudding
So what are the options to pick from?
The EYE is protecting Exor!!

General of the Ridley Facepalm Army.
Flower Fairy
[up]Here's my crowner draft. I decided to take an approach to the crowner that picks out the individual things we can do (essentially making each option a Single Proposition), it seems that there is sufficient interest and agreement in that we should fix Expy, but not when it comes to the specific courses of action we can take.

I'll request a hook, and the crowner is open to more suggestions.

edited 17th Jan '13 8:11:09 PM by WaxingName

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I'm new here, but I've deleted a couple of Expy examples, and it seems like a lot of them are too stupid to even move to Counterpart Comparison. Things that one person claims to think just to shoehorn something in. As was mentioned, the same thing is true of shout outs.

Example: An animated dragon that was red (and had no other similarities) must obviously be an Expy of Jake Long: American Dragon. I don't think that is so much a Counterpart Comparison as just silly entry pimping.

Can there be an option for just deleting all the bad examples without making them Counterpart Comparison? I think the trope as written has some value, as can be seen by the off-wiki usage, and maybe the solution is just to combat the abuse.

edited 17th Jan '13 8:58:28 PM by CruftCrusader

131 Anomalocaris2017th Jan 2013 08:59:20 PM from Mr. Bones' Wild Ride , Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
Chocolate Pudding
Thanks for the crowner.
The EYE is protecting Exor!!

General of the Ridley Facepalm Army.
The only problem is, in that middle ground there's a lot of room for subjectivity. What looks like an expy to one person is not to another.
Expy's not a YMMV trope. Think an example's wrong? Delete it. Zap it. Excise it. Crank up the chainsaw. That's what you do with examples that are wrong. If someone else disagrees, they can take it up on the discussion page like you would do with any disputed deletion.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
133 Anomalocaris2017th Jan 2013 09:17:50 PM from Mr. Bones' Wild Ride , Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
Chocolate Pudding
I've seen examples get removed and re-added a lot, but okay.
The EYE is protecting Exor!!

General of the Ridley Facepalm Army.
Flower Fairy
[up][up]Anomalocris has a point. We need a way to stop getting bad examples from being re-added, otherwise the misuse will continue. That's where limiting the examples to Word of God-confirmed comes into play.
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135 Anomalocaris2017th Jan 2013 09:47:20 PM from Mr. Bones' Wild Ride , Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
Chocolate Pudding
That seems to be quite unpopular on the crowner, however.
The EYE is protecting Exor!!

General of the Ridley Facepalm Army.
We have a way to stop people from persistently re-adding bad examples without using the discussion: edit suspensions. Cuz doing that is against the wiki rules no matter what the trope is.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Flower Fairy
[up]What if multiple people add the same bad example? I've seen that happen quite a bit.

edited 17th Jan '13 10:20:50 PM by WaxingName

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Put a comment in the source telling them not to do it. Standard practice.

edited 17th Jan '13 10:42:08 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."
139 SeptimusHeap18th Jan 2013 02:39:16 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Expy is a trope. Hey, It's That Guy! is a comparable trivia.

Shout-Out needs its own thread.

@Mega J. Do not compare apples with oranges. Nightmare Fuel needed Admin Fiat (seriously, this needs a Wiki Trope) to fix. Also, the offwiki definition of Expy doesn't agree with yours. We can't shoehorn an existing term into an arbitrary definition.

edited 18th Jan '13 2:39:26 AM by SeptimusHeap

140 MagBas18th Jan 2013 03:05:59 AM from In my house
Out of note, Recycled In Space says it needs Word of God(Or to be more exact, be advertised as) to qualify in the third "common thing to avoid" and it is not trivia.

edited 18th Jan '13 3:08:28 AM by MagBas

I think Shout-Out could use the same Special Effort thread as Expy. The problem is pretty much the same.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Flower Fairy
[up][up][up]Is Expy a pre-existing term? I thought us tropers were the ones that came up with that word.

edited 18th Jan '13 10:41:19 AM by WaxingName

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143 SeptimusHeap18th Jan 2013 10:44:59 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
I said "existing term". Was invented by tropers, but as soon as I get the noise out of the hits, it shows up all over the 'Net. Like a preexisting term, but this time invented by tropers.
144 Xtifr18th Jan 2013 12:12:03 PM , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
Merge was not what was suggested earlier; make Expy a broad supertrope (to match now-standard off-wiki use) was the earlier suggestion. Of course, Counterpart Comparison would still be separate. Expy would become a supertrope of tropes like Captain Ersatz.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
[up] Oh yeah, that was my second suggestion, as well as moving some examples to the Same Creator Expy thing.
146 SeptimusHeap18th Jan 2013 12:47:53 PM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
Can someone with better description writing skills than me write up a description for such a supertrope?
147 Xtifr18th Jan 2013 11:45:30 PM , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
Nag me on Monday if nobody else has stepped up to take a shot at it, and I'll see what I can do.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
148 MagBas26th Jan 2013 09:06:49 AM from In my house
Bumping for votes.

edited 26th Jan '13 9:07:40 AM by MagBas

Flower Fairy
[up]I really want some mod to hook my crowner to this thread. It would make things a lot easier.
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150 Xtifr31st Jan 2013 10:37:13 PM , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
[up]Is anyone in disagreement? We seem to have a fairly unanimous opinion here, so a crowner seems rather pointless. The trope has a definition beyond our control at this point. And the definition only needs minor adjustments to reflect the definition the world has adopted.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.

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