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Misused: Expy
Deadlock Clock: 13th Sep '13 11:59 PM
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Misused: Expy get usage counts

 126 Anomalocaris 20, Thu, 17th Jan '13 6:25:31 PM from Mr. Bones' Wild Ride Relationship Status: In another castle
‗ɕ︠
Merging Captain Ersatz and Expy together into just "Expy" as applicable for characters that are derivative off of another and exist to function in a similar role, especially- but not exclusively- in the context of being created by the same creator. That seems acceptable, no?

However, we do need to solve the misuse of it being used as Fan Myopia, people seeking excuses to reference their favorite show on unrelated matters just by saying characters with tangenital connections are clearly derivative.

As I said earlier I think we should do something about Shout-Out too. A lot of Shout-Out examples I've seen amount to "Shout-Out: In this show, People Sit on Chairs. Hmm, where have we seen that before?"

Really, it's the same issue, just the former is for characters and the latter is for premises.

edited 17th Jan '13 6:26:06 PM by Anomalocaris20

The EYE is protecting Exor!!
 127 Waxing Name, Thu, 17th Jan '13 7:19:06 PM from The floor of the 54 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Don't let it die
I suggest that Expy be made Trivia, since if a character is based on another character in another work by creator's admission, that would be a Trivia issue.

I think this thread has gone on long enough. Can I make an appropriate crowner for this issue?
Please help out our The History Of Video Games page.
 128 Anomalocaris 20, Thu, 17th Jan '13 7:25:06 PM from Mr. Bones' Wild Ride Relationship Status: In another castle
‗ɕ︠
So what are the options to pick from?
The EYE is protecting Exor!!
 129 Waxing Name, Thu, 17th Jan '13 8:10:24 PM from The floor of the 54 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Don't let it die
[up]Here's my crowner draft. I decided to take an approach to the crowner that picks out the individual things we can do (essentially making each option a Single Proposition), it seems that there is sufficient interest and agreement in that we should fix Expy, but not when it comes to the specific courses of action we can take.

I'll request a hook, and the crowner is open to more suggestions.

edited 17th Jan '13 8:11:09 PM by WaxingName

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 130 Cruft Crusader, Thu, 17th Jan '13 8:56:51 PM from New Hampshire
I'm new here, but I've deleted a couple of Expy examples, and it seems like a lot of them are too stupid to even move to Counterpart Comparison. Things that one person claims to think just to shoehorn something in. As was mentioned, the same thing is true of shout outs.

Example: An animated dragon that was red (and had no other similarities) must obviously be an Expy of Jake Long: American Dragon. I don't think that is so much a Counterpart Comparison as just silly entry pimping.

Can there be an option for just deleting all the bad examples without making them Counterpart Comparison? I think the trope as written has some value, as can be seen by the off-wiki usage, and maybe the solution is just to combat the abuse.

edited 17th Jan '13 8:58:28 PM by CruftCrusader

 131 Anomalocaris 20, Thu, 17th Jan '13 8:59:20 PM from Mr. Bones' Wild Ride Relationship Status: In another castle
‗ɕ︠
Thanks for the crowner.
The EYE is protecting Exor!!
 132 Troacctid, Thu, 17th Jan '13 9:00:57 PM from California
The only problem is, in that middle ground there's a lot of room for subjectivity. What looks like an expy to one person is not to another.
Expy's not a YMMV trope. Think an example's wrong? Delete it. Zap it. Excise it. Crank up the chainsaw. That's what you do with examples that are wrong. If someone else disagrees, they can take it up on the discussion page like you would do with any disputed deletion.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
 133 Anomalocaris 20, Thu, 17th Jan '13 9:17:50 PM from Mr. Bones' Wild Ride Relationship Status: In another castle
‗ɕ︠
I've seen examples get removed and re-added a lot, but okay.
The EYE is protecting Exor!!
 134 Waxing Name, Thu, 17th Jan '13 9:46:30 PM from The floor of the 54 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Don't let it die
[up][up]Anomalocris has a point. We need a way to stop getting bad examples from being re-added, otherwise the misuse will continue. That's where limiting the examples to Word of God-confirmed comes into play.
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 135 Anomalocaris 20, Thu, 17th Jan '13 9:47:20 PM from Mr. Bones' Wild Ride Relationship Status: In another castle
‗ɕ︠
That seems to be quite unpopular on the crowner, however.
The EYE is protecting Exor!!
 136 Troacctid, Thu, 17th Jan '13 9:54:19 PM from California
We have a way to stop people from persistently re-adding bad examples without using the discussion: edit suspensions. Cuz doing that is against the wiki rules no matter what the trope is.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
 137 Waxing Name, Thu, 17th Jan '13 10:20:33 PM from The floor of the 54 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Don't let it die
[up]What if multiple people add the same bad example? I've seen that happen quite a bit.

edited 17th Jan '13 10:20:50 PM by WaxingName

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 138 Troacctid, Thu, 17th Jan '13 10:41:57 PM from California
Put a comment in the source telling them not to do it. Standard practice.

edited 17th Jan '13 10:42:08 PM by troacctid

Rhymes with "Protracted."
 139 Septimus Heap, Fri, 18th Jan '13 2:39:16 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Expy is a trope. Hey, It's That Guy! is a comparable trivia.

Shout-Out needs its own thread.

@Mega J. Do not compare apples with oranges. Nightmare Fuel needed Admin Fiat (seriously, this needs a Wiki Trope) to fix. Also, the offwiki definition of Expy doesn't agree with yours. We can't shoehorn an existing term into an arbitrary definition.

edited 18th Jan '13 2:39:26 AM by SeptimusHeap

 140 Mag Bas, Fri, 18th Jan '13 3:05:59 AM from In my house
Out of note, Recycled IN SPACE! says it needs Word of God(Or to be more exact, be advertised as) to qualify in the third "common thing to avoid" and it is not trivia.

edited 18th Jan '13 3:08:28 AM by MagBas

 141 Troacctid, Fri, 18th Jan '13 9:47:41 AM from California
I think Shout-Out could use the same Special Effort thread as Expy. The problem is pretty much the same.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
 142 Waxing Name, Fri, 18th Jan '13 10:41:01 AM from The floor of the 54 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Don't let it die
[up][up][up]Is Expy a pre-existing term? I thought us tropers were the ones that came up with that word.

edited 18th Jan '13 10:41:19 AM by WaxingName

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 143 Septimus Heap, Fri, 18th Jan '13 10:44:59 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
I said "existing term". Was invented by tropers, but as soon as I get the noise out of the hits, it shows up all over the 'Net. Like a preexisting term, but this time invented by tropers.

World's Toughest Milkman
Merge was not what was suggested earlier; make Expy a broad supertrope (to match now-standard off-wiki use) was the earlier suggestion. Of course, Counterpart Comparison would still be separate. Expy would become a supertrope of tropes like Captain Ersatz.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
[up] Oh yeah, that was my second suggestion, as well as moving some examples to the Same Creator Expy thing.
 
 146 Septimus Heap, Fri, 18th Jan '13 12:47:53 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
Can someone with better description writing skills than me write up a description for such a supertrope?

World's Toughest Milkman
Nag me on Monday if nobody else has stepped up to take a shot at it, and I'll see what I can do.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
 148 Mag Bas, Sat, 26th Jan '13 9:06:49 AM from In my house
Bumping for votes.

edited 26th Jan '13 9:07:40 AM by MagBas

 149 Waxing Name, Thu, 31st Jan '13 4:27:12 PM from The floor of the 54 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Don't let it die
[up]I really want some mod to hook my crowner to this thread. It would make things a lot easier.
Please help out our The History Of Video Games page.
World's Toughest Milkman
[up]Is anyone in disagreement? We seem to have a fairly unanimous opinion here, so a crowner seems rather pointless. The trope has a definition beyond our control at this point. And the definition only needs minor adjustments to reflect the definition the world has adopted.
"Existential Despair" is an oxymoron.
Total posts: 225
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