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Gambling:

 51 Drunk Girlfriend, Sat, 16th Jun '12 9:55:54 AM from Castle Geekhaven
[up] That's why I used it.tongue

Besides, the analogy "gambling is like drinking" is fairly accurate. You can't blame the addict for getting addicted, but you can definitely blame them for refusing to seek help when they realize they have an addiction.
"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
[up]Well, yeah. But you are assuming they realized they have addiction in the first place. As far I know, they often don't.

edited 16th Jun '12 10:40:45 AM by Heatth

 53 Drunk Girlfriend, Sat, 16th Jun '12 10:40:42 AM from Castle Geekhaven
[up] In my experience those that have a legitimate gambling addiction are usually aware of it. It's kind of hard not to realize that you're going to the casino every night and blowing money you don't have.

edited 16th Jun '12 10:41:16 AM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
 54 Barkey, Sat, 16th Jun '12 10:43:41 AM from Bunker 051 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War Profiteer
Still saying it's their own fault, I don't feel blaming something optional is really reasonable. I don't blame the Tobacco companies for me being a smoker, it's my fault, I like to smoke. I will reap the consequences of that, financially and medically. It is my responsibility.
The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes.
[up][up]That is fair I guess. I never met anyone with gambling addiction. I was thinking in chain smokers and alcoholics, myself.

I still don't think it is totally fair to blame them. They are still the victim and need to be helped.

[up]I think you underestimate the power of advertising and social pressure. Ones decisions is rarely solely their own.

 56 Barkey, Sat, 16th Jun '12 10:50:31 AM from Bunker 051 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War Profiteer
I just don't like the suggestion that so many things are not ones own fault. There are always influencing factors, but at the end of the day all of our decisions are our own. "I can't help it." is a stupid excuse, imho.
The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes.
 57 Drunk Girlfriend, Sat, 16th Jun '12 10:51:59 AM from Castle Geekhaven
[up][up] Drunkscriblerian was working security in a bar/casino when we met. I think that some of the behavior he saw there was completely inexcusable, for anyone, regardless of the circumstances.

edited 16th Jun '12 10:52:06 AM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian
[up][up]"I can't help it" is an stupid excuse to avoid taking responsibility, that is true. But "It is his own fault so he has to deal alone" is also an stupid excuse to avoid helping people.

[up]I don't understand what you are saying, sorry.

[down]Ah, now I understand Drunk Girlfriend's post.tongue

edited 16th Jun '12 11:06:37 AM by Heatth

 59 drunkscriblerian, Sat, 16th Jun '12 11:03:33 AM from Castle Geekhaven Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
After having worked in a casino, I can see both sides. On the one hand, the entire casino industry is built on basically robbing people and convincing them the process is fun...it's a sleazy fucking system and working there was one of the few jobs I've held that morally rubbed me the wrong way.

On the other hand, every compulsive gambler that I met while working there was a conniving douchebag. They were in total denial that they were basically designing their lives and schedules around their gambling habit, spending money they didn't have on cheap food, skimpy drinks and stupid risks. And like DG said, I saw plenty of things that utterly disgusted me on both sides of the equation.

I'd be cool with getting rid of all forms of gambling after working there, TBH. The entire concept of the casino seems to bring out the worst in everyone.
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed.

~Cora M. Strayer~
Is that cake frosting?
I figure there isn't really a way to fix it, short of making people get "Gambling Awareness Cards" that involve attending a class for the right to gamble.

And that would be rather stupid.
Why? That sounds like a reasonable suggestion, actually. If I want to fly a hanglider, I have to take a course and get a license, after all. Create a short course on the basics of probability, which really hammers down the point that you are not going to make money by gambling home and that debunks some of the most common misconceptions like the Gambler's Fallacy and so on; and then, if somebody wants to be allowed to enter a casino, have them take the course before.

EDIT: changed "plane" to "hanglider", to emphasize that the point is not necessarily one's danger to others.

edited 16th Jun '12 1:39:51 PM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

I want Kat's glasses!
I perfectly agree with you on the "prey on the uneducated" aspect.

I think that gambling licenses would be a good idea, but it will be hard to push that past the lobbyists.

edited 16th Jun '12 1:48:03 PM by Medinoc

They Called Me Mad!! I decided to show them all; but when I looked on my works, oh mighty, I despaired: for it made me realize they were right.
 62 Vericrat, Sat, 16th Jun '12 1:56:15 PM from .0000001 seconds ago
Like this, but brown.
I am 100% with Barkey here. At the end of the day, someone made a decision. "But, " you might say, "these people are predisposed to having an addictive personality; they are 20% more likely to engage in this sort of behavior, so it's not their fault." I call bullshit. We all have our predispositions. But if some asshole runs into me because they were texting while driving, I'm not going to give a damn if they have a genetic predisposition that makes them so stupid that they think this is a good idea - it's their fault. You make decisions, and those decisions should be based on information like, "Do I have a predisposition to do something stupid here?" If they're not, then you need to learn from that.

You insist on treating people like children. I'm not saying don't help people when they ask for it, but you should respect them enough that their decisions mean something. And that includes the decision not to learn more about things like gambling before they get involved with it.
THIS IS A PSA: As of 1/1/13 there is a 1-year moratorium on No Pants Thursdays. Instead, we shall celebrate No Pants 2013.
 63 Barkey, Sat, 16th Jun '12 3:14:28 PM from Bunker 051 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War Profiteer
"I can't help it" is an stupid excuse to avoid taking responsibility, that is true. But "It is his own fault so he has to deal alone" is also an stupid excuse to avoid helping people.

Oh no, they don't have to deal with it alone, there are support groups and hotlines as well as friends and family around for that. I just wanted to hammer on the fact that it is their fault. They are not absolved of responsibility because the big bad casino system has effective advertising. Reaping what you sow is part of being an adult.
The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes.
That's a reasonable position. Taking responsibility is important enough, and it is part of being an adult, as you state. I suppose the point I was making is that trying to play the blame game with a bona fide addict isn't a good way to get them to seek professional help and counseling.

I wanted to chime in about my education/tax idea from last page...

I just wanted to point out that "just annoy" people is completely untrue. Ontario slashed a massive smoking rate down to the lowest in the world through bugging people via sin taxes, education and advertisement/sale restrictions. It does work to reduce the problem.

edited 16th Jun '12 11:49:39 PM by breadloaf

 66 Barkey, Sun, 17th Jun '12 12:49:07 AM from Bunker 051 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War Profiteer
I hate it when they raise the sin taxes too high though. Nothing should be 50 percent tax. Then you're just heading into unreasonableness.

Taxing the shit out of peoples winnings doesn't seem right though, you won, you beat the house for a change, let the little guy have his small victory.

edited 17th Jun '12 12:49:58 AM by Barkey

The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes.
We have zero percent tax on winnings here. It's almost entirely due to restrictions on availability that we've used to deal with the problem, but the casino corp has been getting greedy of late (and it would seem that the native reserves here don't want casinos to ruin their culture).

Availability restrictions have failed in the face of virtual casinos though. It's very depressing to see a lot of gambling addicts I know who had not gambled for decades go straight back into their habit because they can do it virtually now.

edited 17th Jun '12 1:59:53 AM by breadloaf

betaalpha
I recently wandered into the one-armed bandit section of a motorway stop and saw a sign on the wall with guidance and warnings about gambling. It basically said that you should treat the machines as a form of entertainment, not as a way to make money, that you shouldn't expect to win back whatever money you put into them and that you shouldn't spend more than you can afford. I don't know if it's now the law to display these signs in such areas but they sound like a good idea to me. Anything more than that, plus age-checks, are unnecessary.

 69 Barkey, Sun, 17th Jun '12 12:05:18 PM from Bunker 051 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War Profiteer
Availability restrictions have failed in the face of virtual casinos though. It's very depressing to see a lot of gambling addicts I know who had not gambled for decades go straight back into their habit because they can do it virtually now.

It's still illegal in the US. On the one hand I see how vulnerable that is for people addicted to gambling, because it's so accessible. On the other hand, I kind of wish it wasn't, because I'd enjoy playing a round of blackjack at home once in a while.
The AR-15 is responsible for 95% of all deaths each year. The rest of the deaths are from obesity and drone strikes.
The system doesn't know you right now, so no post button for you.
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