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Morenatsu (Feedback Requested)
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Morenatsu (Feedback Requested):

Professional Otaku
Pretty sure that pedophilia is an attraction to prepubescent children, not teenagers.
Go read this

"Demons run when a good man goes to war."
 27 emeriin, Sat, 26th May '12 9:42:27 AM Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Edit: never mind.

edited 26th May '12 9:43:07 AM by emeriin

I cut up one dozen new men and you will die somewhat, again and again.
 28 Septimus Heap, Sat, 26th May '12 9:43:56 AM from Muggio Valley, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Puʻu ʻŌʻō
[up][up]Yes. 18 is an arbitrarily guessed meaningless number.

Besides, let's make the 5P decide if this 16-year old is OK, OK?

ETA: Just remembered that we go for 16 as an approximation. My bad.

edited 26th May '12 10:20:48 AM by SeptimusHeap

"Pretty sure that pedophilia is an attraction to prepubescent children, not teenagers."

Pretty sure that this splitting of hairs is stupid, because an adult being attracted to a child of any age is despicable and creepy.

[up]They're not arbitrary at all. At age 16, someone is still a child. At 18, they are an adult and are free to be in any weird porn they want. If the creator of this series didn't want to attract a certain set of weirdos, they wouldn't have made the character 16.

[down]I'm not sure what you mean by "that's IRL".

edited 26th May '12 9:47:37 AM by KaiserMazoku

That's IRL. We're talking about whether some cartoons should be on the wiki.

[up] In real life(like, if this actually happened) a 25 year old dating a 16 year old is super gross, but in fiction, all sorts of things you don't agree with such as murdering people on spaceships, rape, bigotry and the eating of non organic foods occurs, and it's still a good story.

edited 26th May '12 9:55:49 AM by animeg3282

 31 Kuro Bara Hime, Sat, 26th May '12 9:49:14 AM from Somewhere...I think Relationship Status: Mu
☆♥☆
There's not always that big of a difference, physically and mentally, between a 16-year-old and an 18-year-old.

A 16-year-old that looks like an adult isn't pedophilia, and I'm pretty sure we're not looking to cut that.

18 isn't the standard being applied to this wiki, end of discussion.

If you don't agree with this policy, the main Content Violations page is a better venue than arguing on an individual work.

edited 26th May '12 9:56:35 AM by DarkConfidant

Professional Otaku
I'm sorry, Kaiser Mazoku, but I'm having a bit of trouble understanding your stance on this. Just to clarify, are you saying we need to cut anything that sexualizes any characters that look, act or are under 18?
Go read this

"Demons run when a good man goes to war."
 34 JHM, Sat, 26th May '12 10:17:51 AM from Neither Here Nor There Relationship Status: I know
Thunder, Perfect Mind
In real life(like, if this actually happened) a 25 year old dating a 16 year old is super gross, but in fiction, all sorts of things you don't agree with such as murdering people on spaceships, rape, bigotry and the eating of non organic foods occurs, and it's still a good story.

That's really not the best argument to use here, considering what we are trying to do here. In fact, from a logical standpoint, it is a very bad argument. But putting that aside for a moment...

@Kaiser Mazoku: 16 is the age that the P5 has set as the acceptable bottom limit for explicitness in cutting a work. A major reason for this is that outside of the United States, this is the basic mean, median and mode age of consent; within the US, things are somewhat more complicated, but with some caveats, the average state age of consent here is 16 as well.

Furthermore, aren't the characters involved in this thing all within five years of each other in age?

(Getting into statutory law for stupid, stupid reasons. What fun I am having now.)
Mazoku, the one character being 16 isn't breaking any of our rules. We've already passed numerous things with teenaged fanservice in them. Even outright sex so long as the story isn't otherwise pornographic.

II
[up][up] One correction, 5P doesn't have any specific guideline about 16 being the bottom limit. That's for fanfic recs. 5P's standards are whether it sexualizes a prepubescent/early adolescent character (not their words, but I've been using that description because you'd have to willingly ignore it to misunderstand) for the purposes of titillation. If a show aimed at 14-16 year olds features fanservice of 14-15 year olds, generally it's okay, because it's not pandering to pedophiles, it's pandering to people in the age range of its characters.

That all hinges on whether it doesn't cross the boundaries of the porn rules, of course.
Little-known fact: the four gospels were known in their time as Wedge, Bobby Steve, Red, and Smackdaddy. — ABNDT
 37 JHM, Sat, 26th May '12 10:35:15 AM from Neither Here Nor There Relationship Status: I know
Thunder, Perfect Mind
[up] I was not counting works targeted to younger audiences here, considering the potential ambiguity. Nonetheless, I appreciate the clarification.

edited 26th May '12 10:36:31 AM by JHM

 38 Komodin, Sat, 26th May '12 10:36:51 AM from Somewhere in Windy Hill Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
The Sonic Wiki Curator
One correction, 5P doesn't have any specific guideline about 16 being the bottom limit. That's for fanfic recs. 5P's standards are whether it sexualizes a prepubescent/early adolescent character (not their words, but I've been using that description because you'd have to willingly ignore it to misunderstand) for the purposes of titillation. If a show aimed at 14-16 year olds features fanservice of 14-15 year olds, generally it's okay, because it's not pandering to pedophiles, it's pandering to people in the age range of its characters.

That all hinges on whether it doesn't cross the boundaries of the porn rules, of course.

Exactly. grin
love lockdown, you lose.
16 is the solid rule for fanfic recs, true, but it seems like most of the works we've been looking at have been passed through pedo-pandering criteria if the youngest character is 16.
 40 Meeble, Sat, 26th May '12 12:04:22 PM from the ruins of Granseal
likes the cheeses.
As said, there's no hard "any character under 18 having sex means an automatic cut" guideline. I'll certainly take the age of the character in question into account when trying to decide "is this meant to pander to pedophiles?", but that's all I can say until I've had a chance to fully review the work.

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
 41 Enzeru, Sat, 26th May '12 1:10:09 PM from Orlando, FL χಠ♥
icon by implodingoracle
To who(m)ever gave Morenatsu its first angel, thank you.

 42 Komodin, Sat, 26th May '12 1:13:31 PM from Somewhere in Windy Hill Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
The Sonic Wiki Curator
Yeah, I kinda made a mistake when I gave this work a devilhead. Sorry, mang. sad
^^^ Pretty much any visual novel set in a high school will have sex between teenagers in it. If we did have a rule like that, we'd have to go axe Fate/stay night again.

 44 Enzeru, Sat, 26th May '12 3:59:36 PM from Orlando, FL χಠ♥
icon by implodingoracle
Cleaned up the Morenatsu Characters page as per request by jkbeta.

@JHM I'm trying to document tropes in fiction, not go on a moral crusade. Censoring the wiki is a necessary evil due to the google issue.

 46 A Groupie, Sat, 26th May '12 6:12:53 PM from City of Angelic Devils
sick of it all
As noted, this one isn't up my alley. I could barely get around the animuness of Katawa Shoujo to recognize that it did have a valid story (but once I did I liked it, though I turned off the sex content because I'm over 21, and I do not want to watch anyone doing it that's under 21, just grosses me out personally), and furry is even more disgusting to me than anime generally is. That said, I can recognize legit plot, so I'll defend it even if I hate the concept.

edited 26th May '12 6:15:10 PM by AGroupie

?
 47 JHM, Sat, 26th May '12 6:45:32 PM from Neither Here Nor There Relationship Status: I know
Thunder, Perfect Mind
[up][up] That does not prevent your argument from being an inherently flimsy one, nor does that statement excuse the flimsiness of what you said before.

But this is entirely immaterial to the subject at hand.
Which is that someone wanted to run the wiki based on their personal squick and was shut down.

 49 JHM, Sat, 26th May '12 7:11:22 PM from Neither Here Nor There Relationship Status: I know
Thunder, Perfect Mind
[up] I am referring to the subject of whether or not this game should be cut, not Kaiser Mzoku's issues with the premise. To that, whether or not your argument was bad or poorly phrased is immaterial.
 50 A Groupie, Sat, 26th May '12 7:16:17 PM from City of Angelic Devils
sick of it all
[up] Exactly. If I find something personally squicky or distasteful, I have every right to just not read its page, not read/watch/play it, and move on with my life. That said, it really just bugs me me when people use Double Standards, especially toward niche media.
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