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Mass Effect cleanup:

 126 nrjxll, Wed, 13th Jun '12 6:11:50 PM Relationship Status: Not war
The fans are still angry, but from what I've seen it's no longer serious enough that the page will have a higher risk of problems then any other unpopular work.

But if this specific vandal is still potentially out there, keeping it locked probably is the smart move.

 127 Spirit, Wed, 13th Jun '12 11:27:35 PM from America Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Much as I hate to say it we probably should just wait until the Extended Cut gets released. If all goes as hoped the fandom will reunite* and we won't have to worry about vandalism again. 'least vandalism not out of the ordinary.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Lord of Castamere
You are too optimistic. The Extended Cut will just respark the issues. The problems were that people finished the game, got upset over the mediocre ending, and edited the articles to complain about them (to a rather exaggerated extent that made it look like whining instead of righteous criticism). Most people have already completed the game, thus no more of that kind of complaining is appearing...but we have the Vandal Hydra, which denies us rest.

Now when the EC comes, people will replay the ending again. And most of them won't be happy. They will go and try to edit the articles again, and the Hydra will throw even more tantrums.

I say keep it locked, we discuss the entries that should be added for the Extended Cut here or in the main ME 3 thread (entries should be added, we should not rewrite the pre-EC ones) and then we unlock the articles a week or so after the release.

edited 14th Jun '12 8:00:16 PM by Anfauglith

Instead, I have learned a horrible truth of existence...some stories have no meaning.
I also have doubts about the fandom being "reunited", since a lot of "Retakers" are angry that Bioware is taking other people's opinions into consideration and not giving them exactly what they wanted. Then again, it is a Bioware game...
 130 ccoa, Mon, 18th Jun '12 1:52:25 PM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
It seems unlikely that a game this popular got cleaned up this fast. I suspect that there are many large, nattery examples out there, and people shoehorning dislike of the endings into strange places.

Indeed, I found this line on E3:

Unsurprisingly, the fiasco concerning Bioware and the ending of Mass Effect 3 is not addressed; instead, the developer unveiled further content for Star Wars: The Old Republic.

Which is an almost complete non-sequitur - if it's unsurprising, why even mention it?
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
Lord of Castamere
Yes, 'tis crazy: correct mentions of the endings are deleted by the vandal, and at the same time ending examples are added where they don't belong
Instead, I have learned a horrible truth of existence...some stories have no meaning.
 132 lu 127, Wed, 20th Jun '12 9:17:18 AM from the Forest of Thorns Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
The pages are now unlocked. Let's take a chainsaw to bad examples.
小さく揺れた向日葵
 133 Spirit, Wed, 20th Jun '12 10:25:03 AM from America Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
I went and cut the issues I raised here. I left examples that other tropers thought were fine though.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
 134 nrjxll, Wed, 20th Jun '12 2:04:58 PM Relationship Status: Not war
[up]All of them? I think there were a few that the thread suggested should stay (or be dealt with differently, anyway).

 135 Spirit, Wed, 20th Jun '12 4:39:28 PM from America Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
I said I'll leave those points alone. And I did. I only messed with the examples no-one commented on/agreed should be dealt with.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
 136 Spirit, Fri, 22nd Jun '12 9:19:58 PM from America Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
So how is this whole troll business being handled? I mean he's already made a few vandalism. They were quickly fixed but still.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
 137 ccoa, Fri, 22nd Jun '12 9:26:34 PM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
I'm not sure what you mean. We ban the vandal as he shows up (usually within a minute or two). Thanks to the new account throttle, he has to wait between page edits, so even if we don't his damage is limited and easily cleaned up.

He's an extremely easy problem to ignore.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 138 Shaoken, Sat, 23rd Jun '12 1:23:00 AM Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
All that said, we have only three days until the Extended Cut comes out and then it's going to get bad again. I expect a lot of activity that day.

 139 nrjxll, Sat, 23rd Jun '12 2:21:32 AM Relationship Status: Not war
Isn't the page still locked? If so, I'm not sure why there would be a problem.

 140 Shaoken, Sat, 23rd Jun '12 2:23:37 AM Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
Read up a few posts, it's been unlocked.

Lord of Castamere
Remember when adding Extended Cut examples that the original entries should not be deleted.

For example, if an entry says "X was not explained", it should not be deleted if the EC does explain it. I believe it should look like this:

"X was not explained in the original game. The Extended Cut, however, adressed this issue".


By the way, there has been discussion about adding a Mass Effect 3 example to Broken Aesop or not. I believe that the organics vs synthetics issue qualifies for the article and it's objective enough.

edited 23rd Jun '12 8:23:12 AM by Anfauglith

Instead, I have learned a horrible truth of existence...some stories have no meaning.
Imma run through a few articles. There's a few things I've seen that I think should be altered or removed, so I might as well take a good look through Mass Effect trope entries. I'll make note of any changes I think should be made here first, so others can weigh in.
 143 Spirit, Sat, 23rd Jun '12 10:52:26 AM from America Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Took care of the issue I raised here. I also took 32 Footsteps' advice about moving the third bullet to Old Save Bonus.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
 144 nrjxll, Sat, 23rd Jun '12 12:46:08 PM Relationship Status: Not war
[up][up][up]I would prefer to wait until the Extended Cut comes out before doing, as that's one area where it may change things.

Okay, what I've got so far:

  • Ass Pull text The Catalyst is introduced long before the ending by the Prothean VI, Vendetta, as an essential element for the activation of the Crucible. The "contraption" mentioned is the Crucible, the device that the player has been working to construct throughout the entire game. Only the Synthesis choice is introduced in the last ten minutes, the player is not obligated to choose it in any way regardless of EMS, and it is not implausible that the Catalyst would have sufficiently advanced technology to carry out Synthesis.
  • Creator.Bio Ware, under Multiple Endings text It contrasts completely with the other entries under Multiple Endings, which describe the differences in the endings and how the different endings are presented. It's also comes off as complaining and misleading, speaking for the entire fandom rather than just some players.
  • Screwed by the Network text There's nothing that implies that Bioware didn't have enough time and Bioware staff have repeatedly stated that they're completely satisfied with the story. All of Bioware's releases have sold exceptionally well and have received good receptions. There's nothing that shows that EA is doing anything to negatively impact Bioware's development.
  • Shocking Swerve text The Catalyst's existence was foreshadowed, along with the Destroy and Control choices and the Crucible using the Mass Relays. The only things that the ending reveal are that the Catalyst is an AI and the Synthesis choice, neither of which change the fact that you use the Crucible to stop the Reapers, as the intended goal was throughout the entire game.
  • ShoutOut.Mass Effect, one of the examples for 3 text A similiarity is not a Shout-Out. Having played both games, I can say that there's almost nothing in common between the endings of ME3 and Deus Ex anyway. (I would have removed this earlier on the basis of the first sentence I've used, but there are other "X from Work A is similar to Y from Work B" examples that I'm less familiar with.)

So, what does everyone else think?
 146 Spirit, Sat, 23rd Jun '12 2:28:54 PM from America Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Asspull: You're right, it doesn't fit. Cut.

Bioware: No comment.

Screwed By The Network: As much as I'd love to blame EA, of which I really do, it looks like it's all on Bioware with this one. Cut.

Shocking Swerve: This one is actually correct. It has enough foreshadowing to prevent it from being an asspull, but nowhere near enough to reasonably expect what we got. Not only that but the reveal was basically a twist for the sake of having a twist. Keep.

Shout Out: From how Bioware gos on it looks like they believe they thought of these endings first. Even then while Deus Ex and Mass Effect 3 endings are similiar, thematically they have next to nothing in common. Cut.

edited 23rd Jun '12 4:10:43 PM by Spirit

There are none so blind as those who will not see.
 147 nrjxll, Sat, 23rd Jun '12 3:09:03 PM Relationship Status: Not war
Bioware: No comment.

I say eliminate this; strictly speaking it's not even true (there are Multiple Endings - they're just depicted with nearly identical cutscenes and all share some of the same negative aspects), plus it's just whiny.

Lord of Castamere
[up]x3 You used this strategy in our Mass Effect 3 thread. You say "the Catalyst was foreshadowed", but this is a severe oversimplification. The Catalyst-as-a-device was foreshadowed, the Catalyst-as-a-space-god-kid was not, and I'd consider it an Ass Pull. At least a Shocking Swerve. 'Tis not a minor thing at all, the only thing they have in common is the name "Catalyst". If I show someone who did not play the series the mentions about the Catalyst that appear in 99% of the game (which go like "the Catalyst is the last piece we need to get the Crucible working" and then I show them a picture of what the Catalyst ended up being, they'd agree with me.

  • I would rewrite the Ass Pull entry so it refers to the reveal that the Catalyst is Starkid instead of just saying "after introducing the Catalyst" which can be misleading to someone who did not play the game.

  • The Multiple Endings entry is incorrect. There are several endings, and they are different, even if visually they look the same and they share the same flaws.

  • Screwed By the Network entry: Bioware did say they did not have time for things like introducing true consequences for the Rachni decision. I don't know if it merits being included in the article, though. Oh and what you say is incorrect. The game was not well received. Look at the ending debacle. Anyways the current entry is baseless and should not be kept.

  • Shocking Swerve: Totally correct. Keep.

  • Shout-Out: Hmm. No comment. There are too many similarities, but I don't know if they are intentional. Shout Outs are usually lampshaded or they I don't know, feel like one.

edited 23rd Jun '12 6:44:00 PM by Anfauglith

Instead, I have learned a horrible truth of existence...some stories have no meaning.
 149 Shaoken, Sat, 23rd Jun '12 7:50:38 PM Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
On the screwed by the network example, I posted a fan "interview" with one of Bioware's writers a few pages back and quite a few answers to "why didn't you do x?" was "We planned too but we weren't given enough time/money." So I'd say the example should stay; the timeframe for ME 3's development is undisputedly shorter than for ME 1 or ME 2, and we have several Bioware staffers saying that EA was being strict on Deadlines and tight on resources.

To quote the Ass Pull page: "An Ass Pull is a moment when the writers pull something out of thin air in a less-than-graceful narrative development, violating the Law of Conservation of Detail by dropping a plot-critical detail in the middle, or near the end of their narrative without Foreshadowing or dropping a Chekhov's Gun earlier on." As I've pointed out, the Catalyst is foreshadowed, along with the Destroy and Control choices. The Catalyst being an AI is a twist, but it is not one that drastically alters the resolution and does not change how the plot is resolved (unless you choose Synthesis). I feel the same applies to Shocking Swerve: it is a major twist, but not one that completely changes everything (unless you choose Synthesis).

Bioware did say they did not have time for things like introducing true consequences for the Rachni decision.

There are consequences for the Rachni decision. If you choose to kill the queen in 1, the queen in 3 turns out to be a creation of the Reapers. Sparing the fake queen ultimately results in a loss of War Assets.

Oh and what you say is incorrect. The game was not well received. Look at the ending debacle.

It received many high scores from critics, with trailers for the multiplayer DLC proudly proclaiming having received over seventy perfect scores. Metacritic's reviews are split down the middle, and there were reports made about the game being attacked solely for the inclusion of certain elements (homosexual romances, Diane Allers, etc.). imdb has an average user score of 9.3 out of nearly three thousand reviews.

The primary reason I feel Screwed by the Network should be removed is that while the majority of the game is nigh-universally acclaimed, it's only the ending that's upset most of the detractors. Bioware staff have said that they're satisfied with the ending, and EA apparently has had no issues with them taking the time to make the Extended Cut.
Total posts: 193
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