Gender bender deconstruction.... too dark?

I am thinking of making a story about a man that wishes to be a girl becuase he thinks his life sucks for being a man sucks becuase he thinks he should have always been a girl and thinks he would be much happier as a pretty girl.

He gets his wish but he discovers the awful truth was that the source of his unhappyness wasn't being a man but hating himself and being a "pretty girl" wasn't the solution. But accepting himseelf as he was.

This isn't intended as Take That! towards transexuals. But as a deconstruction towards the Gender Bender trope. But I fear it may be interpreted as the being the former.

what do you think?, would the Unfortunate Implications would be too high?. Would it be too dark/offensive?

I am really considering not ever writting this story at all as it came for a random idea I had and maybe the risk of hurting others won't be worth the cost.

edited 21st May '12 1:01:59 AM by FallenLegend

Bear in mind, the following is just my opinion.

Too dark? No. In fact, it sounds like quite an appropriate Take That! towards the Gender Bender trope, which I find annoying unless used really well.

Offensive to transgender people? I don't think so. The protagonist doesn't come off as a transgender person to me: he wants to become a woman on a whim, because he thinks that would make him happy. He doesn't have a deep-seated conviction that he is a woman whose physical sex doesn't match her actual one.

Now, I'm cis-gendered and unfortunately don't know a lot of transgendered people, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. But my personal opinion is that your idea isn't offensive to any group of people.

Hmm. Maybe include some positive trans-gendered characters for balance. Maybe when he starts to think about how he's still not happy, he could talk to some trans-gendered people, and they say that it was right for them or something. You could also end it with him coming to terms with himself as a person, coming to like who he is, and staying a woman in the end.

It'd be tricky to avoid the perception of Unfortunate Implications, so you'd have to make sure it's clear that it's not about trans-gendered people, it's about this one person.

You could also end it with him coming to terms with himself as a person, coming to like who he is, and staying a woman in the end.

Unlikely. The guy's cisgendered and stuck in the wrong body. That's a pretty constant source of discomfort. Just look at how transgendered folks feel about their bodies, and the case of poor David Reimer.

Basically, he's now a pre-op F-to-M transsexual. Those don't often decide to stick to their birth sex because they 'come to terms with themselves as people'.

edited 21st May '12 5:01:39 AM by Iaculus

You just put your finger smack on what I find disturbing about a lot of Gender Bender stories. See, for example, Whateley Universe. The kind of story where a man gets magically turned into a woman (or vice versa, but whom am I kidding) and then learns to love it... these stories may seem like they're dealing with the transgender experience, but they are not positive to transgender people. They are the antithesis of positive. They're saying: "So you're stuck in the wrong body? Shut up and deal."

Sorry to derail from Fallen Legend's idea.

edited 21st May '12 5:38:01 AM by DoktorvonEurotrash

Yeah, I had the same issue with El Goonish Shive...

anywho, not dark at all! Go for it!

@Iaculus: How do we know how many people come to acceptance of being in a body whose physical gender is wrong? There's no way to count them; all we can count is those people for whom acceptance is impossible or unacceptable, and thus pursue some kind of transition. I think it's an error to say it doesn't happen.

Maybe in the end, he becomes a F to M transgender, binding his chest and learning to take on the world as the person he feels like he is? That would be a good subversion of a lot of gender bender tropes without being too severe or risky.

Well, the rather peculiar nature of most Gender Bender stories I've become aware of is that they tend to feature cis men (and there's no indication that they've ever felt unease at their sex/gender) who are then, through magic plot contrivances, transformed into trans men (that is, a man with a typically female body) yet this never seems to bother them to the degree trans people are bothered by their bodies and/or assigned gender roles.

Maybe I'm ignorant of someone's genius, but I've yet to see a story about a person who suffers the usual magical Gender Bender and then has to suffer through body dysmorphia and wanting to live as a man. Gender Blender protagonists always seem to complacent in their new roles. [/rant]

So, that's at least one way you could approach and deconstruct it. And one I'd really like to see. Hint hint.

@Latw PIAT: that's because most of these begin as masturbation fantasies, even if the resulting work is not porn.

I suspect if an instant transformation were possible, even a transsexual would be disconcerted by the speed of the change and woudl take some time getting used to the new body.

I'd have to say yes, your idea does invoke some rather Unfortunate Implications with respect to trans issues.

If you're really interested in doing a Gender Bender deconstruction, I'd recommend something closer to what Latw PIAT suggested a couple of posts above.

Morven: Interesting, in what ways would a trans have to get used to it, due to sudden-new-body parts?

How do we know how many people come to acceptance of being in a body whose physical gender is wrong? There's no way to count them; all we can count is those people for whom acceptance is impossible or unacceptable, and thus pursue some kind of transition. I think it's an error to say it doesn't happen.

All I said was that it was unlikely, which makes sense based on what we know about transgendered folks' experiences and the results of the Reimer experiment (which was basically an attempt under near-perfect circumstances to make a cis guy into a girl, and failed spectacularly).

Saying that a cis male would not be comfortable as a woman is pretty much a tautology, anyway - that's a good percentage of the word's definition.

@AHR: I tend to think that such a sudden change would be a bit of a shock even if it was a change you craved with every fiber of your being. I know that the transition to living as a woman from living as a man, for instance, can be hugely challenging even now, and only part of that is because one's physical body may not yet resemble the preferred gender as much as one would like. Given how gendered many patterns of behavior are, for instance.

@Iaculus: There are certainly many people with some degree of gender dysphoria who do not transition. It may be the case that for many, this is because their gender dysphoria does not meet the psychological criteria for transsexuality but is rather something else, or is to a more minor degree. It's also the case that there are huge obstacles to transition in the current world, which may be more difficult for some to overcome. I can certainly see someone deciding not to go through with it because they don't feel they can afford (financially or otherwise) to transition.

I have also heard cases of people waiting a long time to do it — e.g. until their children are grown.

Yes, but what are these? No one seems to know / want to tell me...

—is being off topic—

—should probably take this to pms—

There are certainly many people with some degree of gender dysphoria who do not transition. It may be the case that for many, this is because their gender dysphoria does not meet the psychological criteria for transsexuality but is rather something else, or is to a more minor degree. It's also the case that there are huge obstacles to transition in the current world, which may be more difficult for some to overcome. I can certainly see someone deciding not to go through with it because they don't feel they can afford (financially or otherwise) to transition.

That's not the same as being comfortable with your body and 'liking who you are', though. That's just having a problem and being unable to treat it.

edited 21st May '12 2:51:46 PM by Iaculus

@Iaculus: Granted. I was thinking more of 'acceptance' as in 'I will grudgingly accept what I cannot change, and find what joy in it I can', not 'yay I'm totally happy about this'.

I don't think it's dark at all. I don't even think it reflects badly on transgender issues; there's a reason why counseling is usually recommended, first to determine if a gender change is really a wise course of action (some people really won't manage to ever adapt or even may have seized on this as a solution when it's not going to solve anything) and second to help someone through it.

People go with irrational solutions that don't address the real problem all the time. Just look at politics.

@AHR: I'm guessing Morven is talking about stuff like, the different ways men and women walk and sit and stuff like that. For example, the way men cross their legs with the ankle up at the knee and women with the knees together. The way you talk to people and expect them to react, stuff like that.

Fascinating

Thank you so much, Loni! I've been trying to find information like that for ages!

Thanks for the feedback huys... I will take a lot of care If I get to actually writte this.

Jumping off what Morven and Loni said, something else you might want to take into consideration is that men and women have different centers of balance- I'm not positive exactly how different, you might have to do some research- but dysmorphia is messy enough without needing to worry about constant cramps and pain... and possibly deformed joints, if it goes on long enough... because the way you automatically stand is suddenly badly off-balance.

Another thing... if the change is magical (as 'gets his wish' seems to suggest), the loss of muscle mass is also likely to be more than a little disconcerting; I grew up with all brothers, and since getting married, I've actually been startled to discover how much stronger than my wife I am, especially as she's reasonably active and I'm hardly the most athletic type, trending more towards 'skinny-ish balding nerd'.

But no, it doesn't sound too dark. Honestly, from the bare-bones description, it sounds almost like a typical after-school special-esque 'learn to like yourself' mixed with a healthy dose of 'be careful what you wish for'.

Have your tried asking the LGBT thread in yackfest, your likely to get a better answering pool there.

I agree, if you want to know if it might offend trans people and how you could avoid that, ask them.

I think something that I should point out though is that trans people are, by definition, extremely concerned with gender in a way that I suspect a lot of people aren't.

I mean I'm male, cis, and very happy with it. On the other hand, if I'd have been born female, I think I would have adapted to that pretty well too. Even if for some reason I was right now transformed into a woman, I might have some hilarious antics, but I don't think it would be all that big a deal because I believe, fundamentally, that what sex or gender I am is incidental to who I am.

On the other hand a lot of people don't feel like that and I respect that, I think different people have different ways of consolidating their identity. But a trans person is necessarily someone who feels so strongly about their sexual identity that they're willing to undergo all sorts of troublesome or expensive processes to make their sexual identity the 'right' one, and that level of commitment isn't universal.

I think there's also a tension in the queer community between those who support mobility between gender and those who want to undermine gender, which are inherently opposed goals.

Basically I think this would be an excellent area of exploration, but anyone who does it should be fully aware that they're stepping into a gigantic can of worms and if they're not careful it will blow up in their face. It's not ideal for a half-hearted concept piece unless you really enjoy flamewars.

edited 31st May '12 6:06:55 AM by Kesteven