Oliver North and Call of Duty.

I did not see any other topic about the issue, so I'm creating one. I hope there was no existing topic that I missed.

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Forbes article

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So, Oliver North appears in the new documentary trailer for Call Of Duty. It has been controversial since the person in question was one of the main figures behind the Iran-Contra Affair (which consisted in selling weapons to Iran and using the profits to help fund the Contras -rebel death squad groups- in Nicaragua). Also, the video talks about the possibility of hackers taking control of US planes, military drones and missile systems, and while he talks a member of the group Anonymous appears on screen.

So, what are your thoughts regarding the commercial, Call of Duty and these sort of political messages in games?

Note: People try to avoid what mods call "bitching" because I do not want the thread to be locked.

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Hm I wonder if this would fit better in OTC.

edited 18th May '12 5:37:25 PM by Anfauglith

Instead, I have learned a horrible truth of existence...some stories have no meaning.

There is a similar thread talking about Activision doing everything it can to tick off Anonymous. You might try going there and talking about this.

Why would you get mad at Ollie North?

He's a hero! And a patriot! And a novelist!

And now he's on FOX News!

Oops and it was on this page as well. Missed that thread. I guess I was placing emphasis on Oliver North and the...strange decision to include him in a trailer about war.

Strange to see vitriol towards Anonymous here, by the way (while reading the other thread). Wouldn't have expected it.

edited 18th May '12 7:30:13 PM by Anfauglith

Instead, I have learned a horrible truth of existence...some stories have no meaning.

Here's a choice comment on the Kotaku article.

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch

I agree that propaganda in games is not something bad per se (I hate people saying variations of "don't mix politics with this, these are videogames") I just dislike the content of this one, from the implications of using Oliver North to the not-so-subtle message about Anonymous.

edited 18th May '12 8:10:09 PM by Anfauglith

Instead, I have learned a horrible truth of existence...some stories have no meaning.

I wouldn't call it vitriol. I just take a dim view towards Anonymous, since half the time their actions or those of people affiliated with them show a blatant disregard for innocent people caught in the crossfire. They've done good things too, mind, but on the whole they tend to come across as not thinking things through a whole lot.

I think propaganda in games is as awful as it gets. I don't mind political messages, but propaganda is inherently a tool of indoctrination. If the prerelease material for this game is any indication, then it looks like Activision (or Treyarch, or both) are happy to go down that path. Personally, I didn't think the macho, military-fellating attitude could get much worse after Modern Warfare 3, but clearly I underestimated Activision's commitment to horrible irresponsibility.

Enough is enough already. Even games made by the actual US military aren't half as pandering as Call of Duty has become, and it's pretty sad to see that industry leaders aren't willing to include a discussion of war that doesn't feel the need to caveat it with "but it's okay, because you're totally the good guy here". I've convinced my younger brother not to buy this game, and that's my good deed for the day.

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch

That's a typical problem with certain shows of complaints like <I don't know the right word in English, it's when several people complain on a street, harming normal circulation of traffic>. In my opinion it's a "necessary evil", so to speak. That would also be an interesting conversation for OTC now that I mention it.

Sorry, I thought propaganda was more or less about "message" (i.e. what usually appears in movies, literature, games, etc). Nevermind the vocabulary fail and thanks for the correction. Sigh two vocabulary fails in such a short period of time.

edited 18th May '12 8:21:46 PM by Nirnaeth

I'm not even talking about things like that. I'm talking about releasing the private information of every police officer on the force because one officer may have shot someone he didn't need to. Or challenging a drug cartel and even at first dismissing the idea that people could die because of what they were planning to do. They eventually backed down, but still...

One of the main things I find disgusting in these games, it seems like a tool that causes Jingoism and such.

edited 18th May '12 8:34:55 PM by Nirnaeth

The point of propaganda is that you get spoon fed a message of some sort while distracted by entertainment. I haven't played Call of Duty since 4, but propaganda is kinda easy to spot. It differentiates itself, I think, by being subtle about it. Instilling jingoism or playing to stereotypes, like in 300, would be a bit propagandistic.

I'm trying to think of how to differentiate it from a theme or message of a work, but I can't really come up with a good example beyond Assassin's Creed, with the overarching message of "question everything."

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry

If you want a good example of propaganda in recent film history, you would be pushed to do better than "Braveheart" - what some (mischievous) commentators have called the Scottish National Party's very own version of "Triumph des Willens".

I saw that film (Braveheart) when it first came out in the cinema, at the Odeon Cinema in Renfield Street in Glasgow, in an auditorium that could not be packed more if the ushers had tried, and the audience was so much like the one I glimpsed in the snatches of Leni Riefenstahl's film of that rally in Nurnberg that is all I have seen, that on reflection, looking back through time, it was fucking terrifying.

It was not that way at the time. For I was part of it. All I was missing was the torches, and the Hakenkreuz armband.

And Mel Gibson and Alan Ladd Junior would have known that that was precisely the right sort of reaction that film would have inspired, in that audience, in that environment, at that time in history.

Any such messages in cod would be screamingly subtle in comparison.

edited 18th May '12 11:59:52 PM by TamH70

Black Ops I was so ridiculously over the top that I suspect it was some kind of parody about military FP Ses. I mean, brainwashing, soviet space programs, undersea bases, nerve gas attacks and an ending that is basically one large amerigasm. It just can't be serious (especially that gas point... oh wait). I doubt the new one will be less over the top.

If any question why we died/ Tell them, because our fathers lied -Rudyard Kipling

"WHAT DO THE NUMBERS MEAN!? BHJAGFDAGVGC!

Actually I already knew what the numbers meant and desired a completely different piece of information, which means we just wasted precious time giving you shock-therapy for no reason. /trollface"

There's this one character in Co D:Bl Ops that a lot of people seem to like, and I can't even remember his name.

edited 19th May '12 12:18:10 AM by JotunofBoredom

Umbran Climax◊

Reznov AKA the biggest ham in the universe (played by Gary Oldman).

If any question why we died/ Tell them, because our fathers lied -Rudyard Kipling