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Prostitution As A Healthy, Wholesome Occupation:

 251 drunkscriblerian, Thu, 31st May '12 8:45:49 PM from Castle Geekhaven Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
@Pykrete: It is when one considers that what the college student does is legal and what the prostitute does is not.
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed.

~Cora M. Strayer~
 252 Carciofus, Thu, 31st May '12 9:42:48 PM from Alpha Tucanae I
Is that cake frosting?
Weaver: Regardless of your thoughts about legalization, I strongly object to you describing people who make a decision that you — and I too, but that's not the point — disapprove of as "trash".

Whatever happened to "judge not, lest you be judged?"

edited 31st May '12 9:43:15 PM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

I stole the magic pencil
Dude, I'm not trying to insult you, but, have you ever even been laid? Everything you say about the act itself is mechanical. You don't describe it as though you've experienced it, you describe it as though you've only ever read about it. The fact that you get certain things wrong, such as saying "a few seconds" when it can take upwards of over an hour, provide further indication that you've either never had sex, or only had really, really, really lousy sex.

Raven Wilder
[up] S/he may have been talking about how long the orgasm itself lasts for, not the actions leading up to it.
"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko
Euo will do!
Um. Gosh. Weaver, I would really like to get into a point-by-point discussion with you, but... I've things to do and places to be today and over the weekend, so won't be able to. <sighs>

I'm a fairly asexual person who doesn't actually get what most people find in sex, despite having tried to. It's just no big deal to me. However, the fact they others really do enjoy the act a lot and place it as a more important part of their lives has not excaped me, nor do I condemn them for doing so (unless it's really late at night and so noisy as to keep me awake: then, I'll start becoming a little more hard-line [lol]).

Different strokes for different folks, and all that. You don't have to like the thing to try to make it safe. I don't like sewers or waste-management all that much (it creeps me out on several levels), however, I do like health-and-safety as well as workers' rights for those who maintain them. I might not like the idea of prostitution all that much, but I cannot deny that it is there, and is unlikely to go, as there does seem to be a deep-seated need in practically every human society for it.

Vilifying and degrading it both culturally, socially and in law is not helping society as a whole, in my opinion, as prohibitionist attitudes tend to invite dangerous behaviours, as even a cursory study of drugs and drink prohibition attempts across the globe will show. Legalising and regulating prostitution is just part of what I would like to see: I'd like the same with all drugs. Not just in the areas of tobacco and drink.

If stigmatising something doesn't prevent that behaviour, then to my mind, it only makes sense to try something else. I may not like the effects of the sin, but I'm not about to hate or demean the sinners. No human, at whatever low- or high-point in their life, needs condemnation and stigmatism added to the mix.

And, about being walking bio-hazards and germ-pools: we are all, already, walking bio-hazards. It's why everybody has to wear protective gear when entering sterile rooms. <shrugs> An immune-issue has taught me that however fit and healthy somebody may appear and consider themselves, they don't know the half of it. Doesn't mean I should back off in a panic, though.

edited 1st Jun '12 3:34:00 AM by Euodiachloris

"When all else failed, she tried being reasonable." ~ Pratchett, Johnny and the Bomb
 256 Cassie, Fri, 1st Jun '12 5:28:19 AM from Malaysia, but where?
The armored raven

Wow. That was rude. Too many of this kind of thump will bring a suspension. Please keep it civil.Thumped.
What profit is it to a man, when he gains his money, but loses his internet? Anonymous 16:26 I believe...
 257 Morven, Fri, 1st Jun '12 5:37:20 AM from Seattle, WA, USA
Nemesis
Cassie, you don't have the authority to make any demands of Weaver, and thus I removed it.

Weaver, the problem I see is that you're opining on a bunch of things that you don't understand and don't have any experience of. It would do you a lot of good to remedy some of your lack of knowledge before doing so. Otherwise, there's simply no productive discussion to be had, and I don't see the point in it.
A brighter future for a darker age.
If the possibly risks (in this case disease, violence, getting into trouble and having the entire world think you're scum if they find out)
That's the world's problem. The violence isn't inherent in it, and the disease (which is reduced by regulation) could also be transferred by non-paying casual sex.

Athlete, labourers don't let strangers stick their dicks in their orifaces for money, their bodily integity remains intact.
Okay, what if a prostitute only services female clients then?

Okay, first off there's lots of disabled people who are in stable relationships.
Depends on the disability. Some disabilities may make someone look severely ugly. Even if it's possible for them to get into a stable relationship, who could blame them for thinking they can't?

Thirdly, you can just not have sex. It's not exactly hard.
Depends on the individual.

And forthly, such cases are the minority and you know it. Most hookers sell themselves to dirty old men and/or scummy types, at least, that's what I've seen on TV.
Emphasis mine. Seriously? This is beginning to sound more like a parody than a serious post.

EDITED IN: Also...

Dude, I'm not trying to insult you, but, have you ever even been laid?
The same question is often asked of people who want prostitution legal. I'm not sure such things should be considered relevant.

edited 1st Jun '12 6:31:10 AM by HiddenFacedMatt

"I even like the idea of a nice man who sees me when I'm sleeping and knows when I'm awake. And that man is Barack Obama." - Bill Maher
 259 Radical Taoist, Fri, 1st Jun '12 7:19:01 AM from the #GUniverse
scratching at .8, just hopin'
Yes but I don't understand it.
By the by, I don't drink either. Come to think of it, I don't really do anything.
I'm seeing a pattern here.
Different situation. You don't choose your gender or race and the work thing is a complicated issue (over here unions are more trouble then they're worth). You do choose to break the law and do something other people think is repulsive by standing on a street corner.
Different situation, same principle. The rules are wrong. If we legalize prostitution, prostitutes won't be doing anything illegal. And hopefully they won't be doing anything on a street corner either; legal brothels are far safer.
I don't understand soldiers either but that's a seperate topic I won't get into. As for surgeons, the rule is 'first do no harm'; they only operate if it's less likely to kill the patient then not doing so.
It would still have the disease risks since you can't tell if someone has an STD by looking at them and the stigma would remain regardlesss. Humans are like that.
The point still stands: many professions have risks, the people who work in them do so with an acceptance of the risk level. There's nothing inherently wrong with job that's as risky as legalized, protected prostitution would be. The goal isn't to make it 100% safe and accepted (that's impossible). The goal is to minimize risk and stigma. I'd be fine if it was as acceptable as the profession of coal mining (which is more dangerous and has greater health risks to society at large).
Not letting some stranger do whatever they want to you for money and exposing yourself to the risk of catching god knows what in the process. Keeping your body clean and 100% in your possession, rather then in that of some stranger.
What. They don't do "whatever they want", they do what the sex worker agrees to do with them in advance. Decriminalization will help make the process considerably more clean and hygienic. And what's this "possession" talk? Do you honestly think you can't have sex with someone without making your body their possession, or vice versa? Not everyone is hardcore sub/dom like that. In a healthy sex industry, the sex worker's body is no more the client's possession than the grill at a Mc Donald's belongs to the customers.
Because in the absence of a relationship, that's all sex is. A few minutes of fluids and meaningless grunting to satisfy hormonal urges. Particuarly when, as is the case with hookers, they do it several times a day.
...Are you honestly incapable of seeing sex as a positive act in and of itself?
I seriously doubt that they appreciate them other then as a source of money. Why would they, it's not like they know them. It's just a meaningless business transaction as far as the hooker is concerned.
I'm a regular customer at several restaurants. I know them well and am well treated when I'm there. Even when I go to a new restaurant, I appreciate being treated with hospitality and courtesy. It's a good feeling in both directions. Of course, it helps that I view the people working there as human beings.

Or, if the above paragraph was too subtle: it doesn't have to be that way.
As has been pointed out before, there would still be illegal activity and those forced into it to cater to the scummy types, only they'd be even harder to deal with because the pimps can hide behind a veneer of legality. After all, how do you tell if someone's doing something of their own free will or because some scumbag has broken them to the point where they can't even think of escaping?
We legalize and regulate the industry, we can clamp down hard on sex slavery. As for the second question? Ask a mental health professional or a cop working the sex slavery rings, they'd know. The point is that decriminalization would let us fight all that bad shit
 260 Exelixi, Sun, 3rd Jun '12 8:58:26 AM from Alchemist's workshop Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Lesbarian
I'd like to share a couple of experiences. Anecdotal, yes, but hopefully they get my point across.

Firstly, I'm legally blind. My BCV is 20/200- that means I have to struggle to read the first letter of the eye chart. I wear special glasses, tinted red and almost as thick as my thumb, I never look directly at a light source, and on bright days I stay in my basement or wind up screaming in pain from being exposed to the sun.

A good example of why this is awful for the love life is flowers. Most people can drive to the floral shop, grab a bouquet, and drop it off at their girl's doorstep. For me to do the same thing, I have to wait for a cloudy day, call half a dozen people to find one that can give me a ride, have them take me to the floral shop, grab the bouquet, have that person drive me to Jade's house, and have them drop me back off. My friends work; they don't have that kind of time. I don't get to surprise my girlfriend with flowers, or anything else, for that matter.

In order for a given SO and I to go on a date, it either has to be extremely cloudy (and, thus, probably storming) or after ten at night, when everything is closing down. Most of my "dates" consist of walking around a designated area with booze or chilling at someone's house (with booze).

My girlfriend right now is a country girl, born and raised on a farm. She doesn't like the city. I'm not expecting that we'll be together forever, but if we are, either she'll have to live in a place she's uncomfortable, or only one of us will be able to work.

I have it better than almost every other handicapped person out there. It is not that easy for a handicapped person to lead a normal love life. (So, yes, I have hired more than one prostitute- that is the term, by the way, HIRED- for companionship when I've felt like my disability prevents me from ever finding love. Or just when I was really, really horny.) Don't think for one second that things are as simple as you make them out to be.

Secondly! I recently spent a few years in West Virginia. This means that almost everyone I knew was, you guessed it, a coal miner. Coal miners die, simple as that. Either they die horribly on the job, or they die even more horribly from black lung. If you like having electricity, you understand why coal miners are necessary. Blah blah blah, coal miners don't get shagged by strangers, jabber jabber- I know. That's not my point. Point is, jobs that are dangerous are still quite often necessary.

(Note- I am in fact on my third scotch. I accept no responsibility for this post making no sense.)

edited 3rd Jun '12 9:00:18 AM by Exelixi

Mura: -flips the bird to veterinary science with one hand and Euclidean geometry with the other-
 261 Ramidel, Mon, 18th Jun '12 5:14:36 AM Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
@Weaver: First, please do not ever call sex workers "trash" on this forum again (or anywhere, preferably). I knew one such woman as a friend, and that statement is utterly offensive.

Anyway. Regarding your statement about walking biohazards and danger to others: In Nevada, there has not been one recorded instance of HIV being spread to or from a licensed prostitute. Not. One. This is pretty compelling evidence, to my mind, that strictly-regulated brothels are good at STD prevention.

@the rest of the forum: I'm not sure I got his point about sex work being bad because authority figures will look down on sex workers. Can anyone parse that for me?

edited 18th Jun '12 5:15:22 AM by Ramidel

 262 Morven, Mon, 18th Jun '12 5:22:51 AM from Seattle, WA, USA
Nemesis
I'm not sure exactly what he meant, and he seems to have left the argument, so ...
A brighter future for a darker age.
The system doesn't know you right now, so no post button for you.
You need to Get Known to get one of those.
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