The future of warfare in UC.
And your point doesn't stand because trauma care isn't a peacetime project as such; it has urgency during a war that it does not in peacetime, because during a war such injuries are more common and the need to heal them more urgent since soldiers are expensive. If some guy loses his arm in a traffic accident, there's plenty more where he came from. If one of your pilots or infantry troopers loses their arm to a traumatic amputation, the pool of people capable of fully replacing them is vastly smaller.
And let us not forget that Zeon lost its wars because it didn't have enough soldiers, just as the EF won because it was able to keep its veterans in the field. Both sides have a vested interest in technology which lets them keep their people in the fight, one from the negative experience and the other the positive.
edited 9th Jun '15 1:39:40 AM by Night
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The future of warfare in UC.
Sometime during A Feddie Zeta, should we ever get that far.
"Amuro. And who's your girlfriend?"
Amuro grimaced. "No sir, she's just a driver for this trip. You know her, though, Jeannette Montange."
"Ah." Revil sighed and reached for his glasses. "Forgive me, Amuro, but I have grown grey, old, and blind in the service of the Federation."
Did they have the right to be here? What right did they have to trouble this man, who had done so much for them personally and the world as a whole? Did he not deserve his retirement? Could Amuro live with himself, to cause Revil one more pang of grief? The General had been their father, all of them, distant perhaps, but to every Federation veteran this man was sacred. Did they have the right to do this? Amuro almost turned away and fled rather than continue.
"I'd heard, my boy, that you were with Karaba now. It was a terrible thing when they forced you to retire, foolish. How is the Dijeh?" Revil smiled at Amuro's expression of horror. "I have friends, still. I imagine that's why you're here..."
Oh god. Did Revil believe they'd come to assassinate him? It would have hurt less if someone had shot him in the chest than to have that thought even cross his mind. "Sir...yes, in a way. I...I feel I owe you an apology and an explanation, before we speak."
"A man must remember and protect his friends. You did much for me once, Amuro. You owe me nothing, as does Jeannette." Revil stood, putting on his glasses. "Jeannette, come here. We won't be disturbed. Yes, I am watched, but the watchers are loyal to me before their nominal superiors."
Jeannette reluctantly approached. "Sir." She even saluted, a perfect parade-ground salute. She was far from the only veteran of the One Year War who would have offered such respect. "We need your help."
Revil looked between them. "Oh? You've both grown into fine young officers. What do you need me for?"
"We...the Assembly won't listen to us. They probably shouldn't, the only person we've got who can even give a speech is Char Aznable." Amuro explained. "We need your help to take our case to them. They'll listen to you. You...we'd have to take them hostage to even talk to them. You can just walk in the front door. Please, sir."
Revil closed his eyes a moment, and Jeannette took the chance to speak. "Sir...what you said to me, before A Bao A Qu. Tomorrow many a good boy on both sides will die taking this town. And the war probably goes on. But if we didn't try, what good are we?"
"My dear, my greatest regret has been retiring myself. All this has come to pass, and I knew not what I could do to stop it. You have given me a way to stop Jamitov. Be there tomorrow. I will ensure your voices are heard, and add my own."
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Is it possible to have the After Colony and Cosmic Era timelines be fused together in a way that makes the two storylines' main portions more or less happen within the same time frame?
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Fandom Heretic
Probably, although a large part of that is up to your work as an author.
@Night: Okay, so you believe that medical technologies improved leap and bounds during wartime, while I believe that medical technologies improved more leap and bounds during peace time. Given that I never really knew about how medical technology really work on common people/ soldier in UC, I think this is the part that we must admit that we had different Head Canon.
Also, Revil... WHY YOU MAKE ME CRY, DAMMIT?!
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
What if I'm also trying to fit them into Evangelion's timeline, so that all of the major changes to history happen after the 1969 moon landings?
Fandom Heretic
Again, it's probably more than doable.
I mean.
SRW does that kind of thing all the time.
...but then, ISTR that SRW J and W used Gundam SEED's Cosmic Era calendar, thereby giving the implication that instead of the Exty Years from Now shows being moved earlier, the 20 Minutes into the Future shows get moved further back in time.
So, if you're using Evangelion's main calendar and timeline as gospel (meaning the events of the fic are ~2015 AD), it'll probably be really, really hard.
But if you're using the actual calendar year of one of the Gundam shows (After Colony 195 or Cosmic Era 70) - or, hell, make up your own Alternate Calendar to reflect the merged timeline - as your starting point, then it shouldn't be nearly as problematic. You can even have Second Impact still take place ~15 years before the current events of the fic, possibly with SEELE having some presence in the Romefeller Foundation and in LOGOS.
The future of warfare in UC.
@RBomber: Yeah, see, that's not how it is.
You merely believe.
I can prove that warfare causes medical technology to advance faster thanks to the history of human medical technology. What you're saying flies in the face of precedent from every industrialized war in the history of mankind. It is against the observable principles of the advance of human knowledge since the development of the printing press and the steam engine.
edited 10th Jun '15 8:26:34 AM by Night
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The future of warfare in UC.
It was night, but the sky had not yet darkened. Perhaps unsurprising considering how urbanized the area was, but rather than usual white and hollow of normal skyglow, it was tinged red and glowing off high clouds like it covered a volcano, and accompanied by the roll of distant man-made thunder. The sights and sounds of home dying, just over the horizon. The Burning of New York was well underway.
They'd heard the howl of jet engines and seen Federation fighter-bombers flash overhead twice, flying low, their wing hardpoints carrying weapons. The Federation was unable to stop it, but unwilling to sit by and do nothing. The presence of another glow on the horizon, on the Jersey side of town, showed where they were going as the Federation's military and the local guerrillas did the only thing they could that might help, and attacked the command group of the forces currently trying to level New York.
Then the sound of much closer man-made thunder, and the bright light from behind. Icelina turned in her seat, sharply, shielding her eyes, and in the afterimages saw the shape of a Zeon mobile suit. It was advancing at a slow walk, its gun flashing occasionally as it fired at a civilian vehicle. It was not enough to burn the empty city, it seemed; they must rend and tear anyone they could reach. Some drivers tried to swerve onto the shoulder and pass others; some went off-road entirely, desperate to get away. The orderly group moving away from the horror instantly became a disorganized mob, and just as instantly dissolved into a snarl behind the first few vehicle wrecks that resulted.
And the Zaku kept coming. Thud. Thud. Flash, roar. One round every other step. People were getting out of their cars and running, and that provoked a long roar as the Zaku fired a burst into the crowd before it could disperse. That roar masked another sound; another set of thuds, rising rapidly and quickly.
There is no sound in the world like a group of mobile suits at the charge. From a distance, they sound like they are far more in number than they actually are; four or six sound like dozens, and a dozen or more sound like hundreds. Closer, within a couple of kilometers, it is something both heard and felt: a vibration through the earth and felt in the teeth, and a noise like the crack of doom as eight or more feet supporting sixty-ton three-story tall metal monsters rise and fall in unison. Within half a kilometer, most people are no longer aware of it as a distinct sound, for they have trouble hearing anything at all. It is instead something they are aware of as if an earthquake while loose objects rattle or slide across the ground. Only the most determined can keep their feet without bracing upon something, and the assault on the senses makes it impossible to think coherently.
The MS-06F Zaku has a land speed of approximately 88kph. It can cross a kilometer in slightly less than a minute.
"Prince Garma, this is not your concern," came the answer. Cold and harsh; another of Gihren's wind-up psychotic soldiers, without soul, addressing a man who he regarded as fop.
"Very well. Under Article One I charge you and your men with usurpation of state authority and mass murder." He lined up the Zaku on his crosshairs. "How do you plead?"
"I answer to Gihren Zabi alone."
"Defense noted. You were warned if you crossed the rivers you were subject to my laws as well as those of my brother. In light of the heinous nature of your crimes, the only possible sentence is summary execution." It struck Garma how easy it was, to simply pull the trigger. It caused him no moral qualms that he was firing on another spacenoid, another soldier of Zeon. In that moment, he almost shook his head. How corrupt we've become. How Romanesque, that we so easily turn the weapons of the state against each other. Kycilia, Gihren...what have you done to us?
The other Zaku went down hard and did not stir. "Men, spread out and form a firing line. If those toy soldiers of Capital Division wish to vent their wrath on the helpless then they will come no further than this point, is that understood?"
"Miss?" There was someone in a Zeon uniform there. They followed it up with a call of "Medic!" The mobile suit carefully knelt, which produced a lot of noise and made her flinch, but also shielded her and the Zeon troopers from anything else that might come from that direction. A few moments later some very helpful woman in Zeon uniform was wrapping her in a blanket and peering at her left ear in worry.
"Who was that?" Icelina managed to mumble.
"Captain Garma Zabi," the medic replied.
edited 10th Jun '15 11:46:45 AM by Night
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Pronounced YAK-you-luss
The Revil scene is nice, but it misses a core part of Char's tragedy - his ability to present himself as an omnicapable visionary badass, creating expectations that he cannot possibly fulfil. Amuro thought of him as a mighty Worthy Opponent who eventually helped save the Earth Sphere from the Zabis, and they even bonded in a weird sort of way over Lalah. He got suckered just as bad as Haman, Quess, Blex, Reccoa, Garma, Nanai, and anyone else who put their trust in the Red Comet.
What's precedent ever done for us?
The future of warfare in UC.
Which doesn't reconcile with Amuro circa CCA (back to hating his guts and yet never saying anything about that) or even the way Amuro acted circa ZZ if some nonanimated materials are to be believed. The "Grand Tragedy of Char" is oft-overplayed as it is obvious that while he reaches Kamille and possibly Reccoa, plus Apolly and a few others, it's equally obvious he doesn't reach most of the other main characters like Emma, Bright, and Henken.
His and Amuro's interactions are wary, and show an Amuro too broken to believe he can resume their vendetta, that he wouldn't be able to handle Char. Amuro declares a reluctant truce and goes through the motions of upholding it not because he believes in Char, but because he doesn't believe in himself. Amuro doesn't stay a part of the cast very long because as he remembers who and what Amuro Ray is, and regains the utter confidence of the last arc of MS Gundam, he would have inevitably clashed and clashed hard with Char as he remembered that yes, he was good enough to take him.
edited 11th Jun '15 6:39:32 AM by Night
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Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Char started CCA with a colony drop, betraying the AEUG's ideals in the grandest way possible (remember how Karaba was wiped out trying to save the citizens of Dublin?). Combined with him abandoning his allies at the end of Zeta (sure, it looked like he died, but then he showed up as the head of their mortal enemies, Neo Zeon), that's more than enough reason for Amuro to hate him.
What's precedent ever done for us?
The future of warfare in UC.
Yes, but Amuro never calls him on it as a betrayal of AEUG; he simply treats it as predictable behavior from the contemptible Char and even doesn't understand why anyone else didn't see it coming. The point isn't in the fact he hates him again; it's in the fact that he never acts as though Char has betrayed.
This is why I don't think that Zeta shows them making a real peace. Amuro saw the real Char in late MSG, in a way that even Char himself probably hasn't, and was utterly repulsed. He instantly wanted Char dead after it. No amount of superficial charm is likely to overcome that. Zeta Amuro is confronted with a Char who appears reasonably intact, and is himself largely broken. He didn't see himself as having the strength to take up that battle. But whatever he saw during MSG never went away either, which is why he acts the way he does during CCA.
edited 11th Jun '15 9:58:17 AM by Night
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Fandom Heretic
I really, really like those "How Icelina met Garma" snippets.
Amuro does briefly yell at Char that he used to be on their side and now he's fighting them again but like most Z and ZZ stuff it's only briefly mentioned in the film and doesn't come up otherwise.
Fandom Heretic
So, a random SEED thought.
What If? Athrun died first, on that island? By which I mean, Kira went berserk and killed Athrun before Nicol could attempt his ill-fated (Anti-) Villainous Rescue?
On how many levels, would that completely and totally wreck the CE timeline from then on?
The future of warfare in UC.
Rocks fall, everybody dies. So long and thanks for all the fish. Humanity is over, gg no re. At the very least one side is going to be genocided. Rau's master plan is shaky enough that the Coordinators might survive, but he might still pull off the TPK.
edited 22nd Jun '15 2:56:43 AM by Night
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Fandom Heretic
Hey, guys, quick. I need name suggestions for a Char Clone. More specifically a super-blatant Carazzo Ronah clone, masquerading as a Gihren clone.
Halp?
The Struggler
So, he's a Darth Vader clone trying to be Batman?
You gotta start somewhere.
Fandom Heretic
The future of warfare in UC.
Random idea: the Gundam Development Project prototypes aren't buried, because someone pointed out the Phsyalis would actually be really useful against a future colony drop... Come ZZ, some Federation pilot is given a very special mission: pilot an improved Gundam Phsyalis with multiple heavy nuclear warheads to intercept a colony drop.
edited 29th Jun '15 4:59:19 AM by Night
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Pronounced YAK-you-luss
That'd probably require the AEUG or Karaba to steal the Physalis, or the pilot's unit to mutiny. The Federation was A-OK with Dublin getting squished, both to show willing to their (highly profitable) Neo Zeon occupiers and to reduce the Earth's population a little.
It'd make for a cool scene, though, not least because the Physalis's fixed frame makes it badly obsolete compared to modern suit designs and it'd require from serious babysitting from a squadron who don't have the same protection against its main gun that it does. It'd basically be a suicide mission on every level.
edited 29th Jun '15 5:34:39 AM by Iaculus
What's precedent ever done for us?
The future of warfare in UC.
Maybe. Then again part of the point of the Dublin drop was that significant portions of the Federation were still resisting; which makes perfect sense considering Haman doesn't actually have as many troops as even original Zeon at its height. Fonse Kagatie and his predecessors from Jupiter were sick bastards but they understood the fundamental problem of trying to conquer or even contain Earth in a way none of the Zeon movements ever did.
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Fandom Heretic
Who is Fonse Kagatie?
Well, my point still stands, but thank you for clarifying anyway.
@Amita: See? More civilian projects= more easily bribed officials= more trickling funds (to my pocket). More incentives for peace time projects!