Misused: All Myths Are True get usage counts
Deadlock Clock: 1st Feb 2014 11:59:00 PM

Total posts: [273]
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176 shimaspawn26th Feb 2013 03:07:05 PM from Here and Now , Relationship Status: In your bunk
I think this is the real distinction:

All Myths Are True: Fantasy creatures are explicitly stated to be believed to be a myth In-Universe. They are then revealed to all be real but hiding under The Masquerade the whole time.

Fantasy Kitchen Sink: Throw everything from fantasy in a pot and don't hide it. All the fantasy elements are out in the open from the start.

edited 26th Feb '13 3:09:51 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
177 Noaqiyeum26th Feb 2013 03:54:22 PM from a thought-experiment gone horribly wrong , Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The it-thingy
It could be a little more complicated - fantasy is a bit broader than myth is, and there might be other reasons besides The Masquerade that explain why mythical beings aren't public knowledge - but overall I think that seems to be a pretty good distinction.
Liberté, Égalité, Absurdité
178 shimaspawn26th Feb 2013 04:01:22 PM from Here and Now , Relationship Status: In your bunk
Legends would count for the first as well. It just has to be the general perception In-Universe that these things are fictional. Not that they fit a strict definition of myth.

edited 26th Feb '13 4:01:44 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
179 Noaqiyeum26th Feb 2013 04:08:56 PM from a thought-experiment gone horribly wrong , Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The it-thingy
(I was thinking more of Fantasy Kitchen Sink would also involve more tropes that developed out of modern fantasy, like Five Races, Magic A Is Magic A, Fantastic Racism, versus those associated with myths, legends, folklore, and faery tales. But, again, kind of a minor detail.)

edited 26th Feb '13 4:09:48 PM by Noaqiyeum

Liberté, Égalité, Absurdité
180 shimaspawn26th Feb 2013 04:10:31 PM from Here and Now , Relationship Status: In your bunk
Yes, it doesn't really matter what the supernatural type is. Tropes Are Flexible.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
Piffy
I can get behind 176
Because underscores break everything: Working link to my Troper page
[up]Yes, that could work.
183 EditorPallMall20th Apr 2013 03:28:48 PM from United States, East Coast
Don't Fear the Spiders
All Myths Are True is Exactly What It Says on the Tin. There are myths and legends in the setting and they are real. Completely straightforward.

edited 20th Apr '13 4:08:25 PM by EditorPallMall

Keep it breezy!
Wandering...
I just want to point out that one of the reasons for the "misuse" is probably the laconic saying that the trope is when "all mythologies mentioned in the work are based on real people and events." It sounds like the trope is when Real Life myths are used in the work, which this discussion is saying is not what the trope actually is.

I do like [up] that laconic, though: "There are myths and legends in the setting and they are real" In-Universe.

edited 20th Apr '13 4:15:19 PM by DunDun

185 Noaqiyeum20th Apr 2013 04:35:57 PM from a thought-experiment gone horribly wrong , Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The it-thingy
I thought that was what the split-off The Legend of Chekhov was for... I support 176.
Liberté, Égalité, Absurdité
186 EditorPallMall20th Apr 2013 04:45:33 PM from United States, East Coast
Don't Fear the Spiders
176 would be severe trope decay. The Masquerade has nothing to do with this concept. This trope use to describe one of two things:

  • All myths told in-universe are true.
  • All myths of real life are true in the story.

Since we have The Legend of Chekhov to cover the first one (actually a much better article) and the second is a clone of Fantasy Kitchen Sink we should redirect this article to one of these two. Or create a Disambiguation similar to Heroic Sociopath.

edited 20th Apr '13 4:48:15 PM by EditorPallMall

Keep it breezy!
187 SeptimusHeap20th Apr 2013 04:48:10 PM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
I would agree with 186, but disambiguating.
188 Noaqiyeum21st Apr 2013 11:51:00 AM from a thought-experiment gone horribly wrong , Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The it-thingy
[up][up] Firstly, I disagree that the second is a clone of Fantasy Kitchen Sink due to the differences between fantasy versus mythology and folklore mentioned previously. Secondly, though, how would it be trope decay?
Liberté, Égalité, Absurdité
Re laconic: It's not misleading, just ambiguous, because "real" can refer either to Real Life or to simply existing for real In-Universe.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
190 EditorPallMall21st Apr 2013 12:52:19 PM from United States, East Coast
Don't Fear the Spiders
[up][up]Yes, there is a difference between fantasy and folklore/mythology. But Fantasy Kitchen Sink refers to a slue of common elements of fantasy commonly thrown into various settings all of which are in some way based off of folklore/mythology.

It would be trope decay because, as I explained previously, The Masquerade is a completely different trope. Saying the trope is when a Masquerade is involved would be redefining All Myths Are True — exactly what trope decay is.

edited 21st Apr '13 12:55:32 PM by EditorPallMall

Keep it breezy!
Wandering...
[up][up]I'm a believer that ambiguity is worse than verbosity. The laconic is where people go to get a quick understanding without actually reading the article. The laconic is the last place there should be ambiguity.

edited 21st Apr '13 1:03:29 PM by DunDun

192 StarSword21st Apr 2013 08:08:08 PM from somewhere in deep space , Relationship Status: In denial
SF-81A Black Knight
Possibility for a replacement laconic:

If a myth is referred to, it always turns out to be a true story.
aka [[redirect:TheLegendOfChekhov]]?
194 StarSword21st Apr 2013 09:42:57 PM from somewhere in deep space , Relationship Status: In denial
SF-81A Black Knight
That did occur to me as I was typing it. What exactly is the distinction?
We created The Legend of Chekhov so that we'd have a clean page with that definition. We also have Fantasy Kitchen Sink for massive myth mashups. All Myths Are True is now wholly covered by other pages, so we can turn it into a redirect.

196 SeptimusHeap21st Apr 2013 11:23:52 PM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
A disambiguation is better, methinks.
A disambiguation and a faux red link would be perfect.
198 SeptimusHeap22nd Apr 2013 12:13:20 AM from Zurich, Switzerland , Relationship Status: Mu
A Wizard boy
A faux redlink requires a lot more problems than what we have here. A simple disambig should suffice.
199 johnnye22nd Apr 2013 06:05:40 AM from Brighton, UK , Relationship Status: If it's you, it's okay
Disambig page at All Myths Are True directing to Legend Of Chekhov and Fantasy Kitchen Sink?

Sounds perfect.
Zaldrīzes buzdari iksos daor, so Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus.
200 StarSword22nd Apr 2013 06:13:56 AM from somewhere in deep space , Relationship Status: In denial
SF-81A Black Knight
Good by me.

Page Action: All Myths Are True
14th Jun '12 5:40:04 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
All Myths Are True is being misused as "real world myths are used in a work", while it really is about a myth turning out to be true after mentioned in-universe.

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