TV Tropes Org

Forums

On-Topic Conversations:
Telling People to "Man Up"
search forum titles
google site search
Total posts: [195]
1
 2  3  4  5  6 ... 8

Telling People to "Man Up":

 1 Vericrat, Sun, 6th May '12 2:50:19 AM from .0000001 seconds ago
Like this, but brown.
I can't count the number of times I read a post in a forum or hear someone say something that sounds suspiciously like whining. It usually goes something like:

  • "I guess I'm not good enough because..."
  • "I hate myself because..."
  • "Nobody likes me because..."

And as much as I'll feel like a dick, I almost never care about what follows that "because". I can't stand self-pity. I want to say, "Get over it. You're not good enough, and nobody likes you, not because of X, but because you bitch about it." This is obviously not a productive way of handling things, or helping people better themselves.

Still, I think there comes a time to tell people to "Man up." Not every situation needs be dealt with like this, and that's what this thread is about.

Some people were bullied as kids. Some people were poor. Some people were born disfavored minorities. Some people are born with asthma. Some people are born to shitty parents. Some people lack intelligence. Some people aren't good-looking. Some people don't have a good sense of humor. Some people are shy.

To me, if we can do something about the root causes of something that causes people distress, we should. So if we could cure asthma, that'd be great. We need to get rid of racism. People should be good parents, or not parents at all.

But the reason I pointed those things out is that every single one of us has disadvantages. The people who are fun to be around and the people who are productive are the ones who work past them. Some people can do this on their own. Some people have such large issues they need professional help. But I've never thought just sitting around whining about something, even something you can't help, was going to fix the situation.

There are obviously situations where you wouldn't say this. If someone says, "I'm feeling down about that time I was raped a few years back, " you probably shouldn't say this. But is the division only with psychologically scarring events? Does it always apply to all such events?

When do you think it's appropriate to tell someone to "Man up"?
THIS IS A PSA: As of 1/1/13 there is a 1-year moratorium on No Pants Thursdays. Instead, we shall celebrate No Pants 2013.
betaalpha
I think it depends on how long it goes on for. Some people just need to have a really good moan to get stuff off their chest (one story I heard, annoyingly I can't remember much, was about how one of the earliest US presidents summoned a hometown friend to the White House to discuss a raft of foreign and domestic issues, none of which the friend had an idea about nor was his guidance wanted - the Pres just wanted to lighten his burden onto a sympathetic ear).

But then 'no-one likes me' goes beyond complaining and into self-pity. And if it sounds like the person is relying too much on other people's emotional support he's not gonna help himself. It's just one of those judgement calls and I suggest asking them nicely the first time - just flat-out telling 'em to man up probably isn't going to help at all, but it likely will shut them up.

 3 Loni Jay, Sun, 6th May '12 6:00:01 AM from Australia Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
I don't know, but I probably wouldn't use the words 'man up' to express the sentiment. tongue
Be not afraid...
Beardless
Telling people to 'man up' is a load of bollocks. Accepting responsibility is obviously important, but serious problems, personal or otherwise, shouldn't just be ignored because you think someone lacks backbone. When people use it in that context, they're just being assholes.

If it was in a less serious manner, like telling someone to stop whining about work, then that's fine. Serious problems, though? Have a goddamn heart, people.
I have no beard. I have no beard, and I must scream.
 5 Bokhura Burnes, Sun, 6th May '12 6:38:10 AM from Inside the Bug Pit
Radical Moderate
"Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." — The Serenity Prayer.

As long as someone is following this path, I don't think they have anything to worry about. It's when people stop living up to this that problems begin.

(Also, I'd rather tell someone to 'shape up' rather than 'man up'. Whiny women aren't any more fun to be around than whiny men.)
You're a wallflower. You see things. You keep quiet about them. And you understand.
 6 Anthony H, Sun, 6th May '12 7:16:56 AM from monterrey, mex
Transformers 4?!
I prefer to use the "put your shit together" phrase

 7 0dd 1, Sun, 6th May '12 7:19:17 AM from Nowhere Land
Just awesome like that
What Post 4 said, plus objections to the implications of the actual phrase "man up."
Insert witty and clever quip here.

My page, as the database hates my handle.

My music.
 8 Midnight Rambler, Sun, 6th May '12 7:34:02 AM from Germania Inferior
stout shako for 2 refined
If it was in a less serious manner, like telling someone to stop whining about work, then that's fine. Serious problems, though? Have a goddamn heart, people.

If I read the OP correctly, the original question was where to draw the line between 'serious' and 'less serious' issues.
That's the way you do it: pony for nothing, and your mares for free.

Just another brick in the Wall of Text.
Gunpla is amazing!
Just telling people to "Man up" or whatever does nothing.

Some people (like me) get honestly lost or confused or scared about things and need honest help.

At the very least just say "Sorry I dont want to hear it." or "I can't help, sorry"

edited 6th May '12 7:48:04 AM by Thorn14

 10 drunkscriblerian, Sun, 6th May '12 8:50:05 AM from Castle Geekhaven Relationship Status: In season
Street Writing Man
@Loni: How about "grow up"? I mean, the phrase "Be a man about it" is often misinterpreted; it means stop being a little kid (boy, in this case) and act like an adult. It's just suffered more than its fair share of Memetic Mutation.

I've no issue with telling people to get on with it; sometimes sympathy can be overdone. When I want to be diplomatic about it, I tell people "Look I know it isn't easy, but this is your solution. The alternative is continuing to feel as you do."
If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed.

~Cora M. Strayer~
 11 Martello, Sun, 6th May '12 9:02:34 AM from Black River, NY
Hammer of the Pervs
One of the great things about my job is that "man up" is pretty much the official response to any issue. Or "take a knee and drink water." Unless somebody's threatening suicide though, we take that very seriously.
"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
 12 Steven, Sun, 6th May '12 9:19:48 AM from MY PANTS Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
The guy who face palms
Maybe "learn to deal with it" may be a better way to say things and I would only say that if the person keeps whining after I exhausted all of my other options.
Mario Kart 8 TV Tropes Tourney Group: 6728-1950-8250
 13 Karkadinn, Sun, 6th May '12 9:22:37 AM from New Orleans, Louisiana
Karkadinn
One would think it to be more ideal to attend to psychological issues before they got to the point of threatening to kill themselves.

Really, this sort of thing varies hugely on a case by case basis, and on the internet, at least, there's no damn way to discern enough of the relevant details to tell what the proper reaction is. I see a lot of people who habitually rush to judgment and assume that anyone complaining is a wimp - without having any idea of the background behind the complaints or any idea of the person's overall history or personality. And even when telling someone to tough it out IS the correct response, it should be noted that that isn't the same as simple dismissal.
Furthermore, I think Guantanamo must be destroyed.
Lord of Castamere
How about "grow up"?

It's extremely offensive. What does "growing up" have anything to do with it? how is angst immature in any way?

Some people (like me) get honestly lost or confused or scared about things and need honest help.

At the very least just say "Sorry I dont want to hear it." or "I can't help, sorry"

This. If you can't or don't want to help, no one will force you, but there's no reason to be a dick about it.

I think this is part of a cultural bias against angst and what society perceives as emo-ness. A sentence born of sadness will usually be mocked or ignored with phrases such as "grow up" "stop whining" that only makes everything worse. This is especially glaring if people judge that other person sadness as unfounded...

there's no damn way to discern enough of the relevant details to tell what the proper reaction is. I see a lot of people who habitually rush to judgment and assume that anyone complaining is a wimp - without having any idea of the background behind the complaints or any idea of the person's overall history or personality. And even when telling someone to tough it out IS the correct response,

There is no "proper reaction". This isn't something objective, so it cannot be judged...people get affected by things differently, and in my opinion telling someone to "tough it out" is never correct...either the person will do it him/herself or they won't, but they don't need anyone else telling them that.

I find all of this and how many people agree to use these phrases abominable.

edited 6th May '12 10:12:28 AM by Anfauglith

Instead, I have learned a horrible truth of existence...some stories have no meaning.
Three-Puppet Saluter
Angst is immature because maturity is about trying to solve problems, not wallowing in them. Sentiment is good for all ages, but angst - revolving on those emotions - is not.
Well! Is she here? Is Alberta GRA here?

C'mon, guys, DO IT.
 16 Tam H 70, Sun, 6th May '12 10:24:49 AM from 合計虐殺 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War ALWAYS changes. Man does not.
You missed the most important part of that prayer, Bokhura.

"And also give me the luck not to fuck up too often."

Also, what Anfauglith said, with additions. Unless you can see inside someone's skull with laser like precision, never tell anyone to man up. You are not god. And the person you are telling this to may object violently.
Three-Puppet Saluter
If you can convince a person to man up, that's best. But bluntly saying "man up" and not having it taken well isn't a god complex. It's just poor social skills.
Well! Is she here? Is Alberta GRA here?

C'mon, guys, DO IT.
 18 Aceof Spades, Sun, 6th May '12 10:32:19 AM from The Wild Blue Yonder Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
[up][up][up]There's age appropriate angst, but in any cases there's a very vague time limit on how long you can angst before getting on with your life. Which I guess largely depends on culture, or the individuals involved. (Generally, your friends should be able to tell how long you stay depressed about whatever before getting annoyed with you."

Anyway, telling people to "man up" doesn't actually solve the problem. It can come of as incredibly condescending. It's different if you actually know this person, but I find problems with saying to someone over the internet. There's probably like a bajillion things going on with that mostly anonymous person that I don't know about, and I just can't find it in me to tell them to grow up or anything if they're saying something that sounds genuinely depressed to me. Mostly I have to say "sorry, I can't help you from here."

edited 6th May '12 10:32:38 AM by AceofSpades

Lord of Castamere
is good for all ages

Age is subjective, as is this definition of "maturity". That alone debunks the whole "X is immature" argument. Also I don't see how angst means that you do not solve your problems. If your problems affected you enough for you to angst, then you acknowledge them, which is one of the first steps of solving them...and sometimes people cannot solve something on their own, and telling them to man up is screwing those persons. One should ignore stupid opinions but sometimes it's not an option.

By the way, "toughing it up" tends to mean dismissing the problems, which is not so tough after all.

If you can convince a person to man up, that's best

No, it's not. At all. It breeds dismissing problems...hiding them. It can potentially screw with someone's psyche.

edited 6th May '12 10:35:13 AM by Anfauglith

Instead, I have learned a horrible truth of existence...some stories have no meaning.
Three-Puppet Saluter
"Toughing it out" is the phrase, and that's supposed to be for the stuff you can't change. Myself, I don't believe in things you can't change - I'm more for facing them in an authoritative manner.

Anyway, that's a very Freudian way of looking at the world. Modern psychological science indicates that repression (of the affirming kind, not the self-flagellating kind) leads more to Becoming the Mask.

As far as "subjective" goes, I'm getting a very postmodern existentialist vibe from your posts. If this is correct, you shouldn't pick and choose a few subjective things out of a whole subjective world.

edited 6th May '12 10:40:36 AM by DomaDoma

Well! Is she here? Is Alberta GRA here?

C'mon, guys, DO IT.
 21 Aceof Spades, Sun, 6th May '12 10:46:55 AM from The Wild Blue Yonder Relationship Status: I wanna know about these strangers like me
Somehow I don't think you can change the fact that someone died, or that you got dumped by someone you were intensely in love with. Or that your parents are abusive or that the kids are bullying you. There really are things that cannot be changed, Doma. Largely because nature doesn't work that way or because other people have made decisions and stuck to them. Dealing with all these things are legitimate problems.
Lord of Castamere
[up][up] Well, you are right about something, I prefer psychoanalysis rather than for example cognitive psychology.

edited 6th May '12 11:00:40 AM by Anfauglith

Instead, I have learned a horrible truth of existence...some stories have no meaning.
Three-Puppet Saluter
All right, that's fair, Ace. But even so, there's a definite point when grieving becomes more about your emotions than the actual person you're grieving. And that's a mental loop you can and should avoid.

As far as abusers and bullies, you can too do something about them. I've done it myself with the latter.
Well! Is she here? Is Alberta GRA here?

C'mon, guys, DO IT.
 24 Karalora, Sun, 6th May '12 11:00:01 AM from San Fernando Valley, CA Relationship Status: In another castle
Manliest Person on Skype
I like telling people "Hang in there." I think it strikes a good balance between encouraging them to persevere, acknowledging that what they're going through is genuinely difficult and attitude alone won't fix it, and giving them hope that it will ultimately improve, somehow.

Also, it's gender-neutral.

edited 6th May '12 11:00:22 AM by Karalora

Three-Puppet Saluter
I think Karalora's got the right attitude pegged, yeah. I'll keep that in mind.
Well! Is she here? Is Alberta GRA here?

C'mon, guys, DO IT.
Total posts: 195
1
 2  3  4  5  6 ... 8


TV Tropes by TV Tropes Foundation, LLC is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from thestaff@tvtropes.org.
Privacy Policy