Knight of Lolicon - feedback wanted

The title asks for feedback. I am providing it. I think it should be cut.

Which is fine. I'm just picky about accuracy of language. You have an opinion, not a vote. No hard feelings? </derail>

It's all good

Is there some way to find out who created a page?

I ask because, if my hunch is right, the only reason we even have a page on this is because the author of the story created it himself.

I don't know how much that might or might not influence the decision, what with No Such Thing As Notability, but it might be worth pointing out.

Well, there's no rule that states that the author can't make a work page for their own works, providing that it actually exists, so perhaps it would be in our best interests to not use that in a vote for what to do with the page.

Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.

Okay.

Oh, so that's what happens! I didn't know that. Thank you!

edited 5th May '12 10:39:54 PM by Mazz

By the way, I'm pretty sure the only way to see who created a page is to look at the history right after it's created and before anyone has edited it. Once there's one edit for the page, the first one disappears.

For example, I created VideoGame.Sonic Rush Series (in the sense that I moved it from Main/), but you can't see my initial edit with the edit reason on it; the oldest edit is me adding links to the Elemental Powers trope. In the past, I have seen edits where people created pages, but again, the first actual edit made them disappear.

The page looks like it was made by someone who doesn't quite get the fanfic, or the concept of loli-lolicon.

All in all, it looks like somebody just likes anime and the word loli, without proper understanding of it, and thinks loli means "female child", which is a common misconception, apparently.

If the page was made by the author, it's fine. It's just that he sucks at interpreting his own work, apparently.

Based on the information provided by those brave souls who managed to read it, all I'm seeing is a bad Self-Insert Fic.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

If I could get to vote, I would say "cut" because:

1. It glorifies —to the point of it being a borderline fetish— the "childish beauty and great innocence" of the so called "lolis".

That phrase and its variations keep popping up and up and each time it sounds less and less like a deliberately humorous line.

2. The fact that said glorifying comes mainly from the main character, a twenty-five year old man.

3. The insistence that the "lolicon" (explicitly described in the story as attraction to an underage girl) in the story is innocent and distinctly separate from the mental illness.

4. Dialogues like...

"LINDA: Mike... yo quería salir de aquí contigo... y vivir como una niña normal, junto a ti..."

("LINDA: Mike... I wanted to get out of here [she means the world they were both in] with you... and to live like a normal child [this is one of those instances where "niña" translates more into "child" because of the context], by your side...")

...Keep reaffirming this notion that a relationship between the main character (25 years old) and the girl (a frustratingly undefined age, but more and more she sounds like a minor) is something desirable.

5. The overly defensive "it's just like Kodomo No Jikan!" disclaimer at the start of the article, before even beginning to describe the work.

EDIT: I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt too, but:

"¿Lolicon, eh? Eso quiere decir: 'el complejo mental por el que un adulto se siente atraído hacia una niña de corta edad, a pesar de o incluso por su escaso desarrollo físico'. Puede llegar a tener un carácter... patológico."

("Lolicon, eh? That means: 'the mental complex by which an adult feels attracted to a girl of young age, despite or even because of her scarce physical development'. It can even have a... pathological aspect/nature to it.")

Tells me that the author knew full well what he was talking about. He clearly did research on what "lolicon" means.

edited 5th May '12 11:44:38 PM by Mazz

Yeah, the comparison to Kodomo is practically a dead giveaway that this is a sleazy work.

I don't trust that comparison, since those can be misleading as hell, but the elements described are worrisome on the whole. May need chopping after all.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

And I'm thinking So Bad Its Hilarious Self-Insert Fic by a Castilian Spanish speaking 15-year-old with a highly unusual taste in anime and very tenuous grasp of the subculture. I mean seriously, Transformers: Super-God Masterforce?

Still, just keep in mind that nobody questioned this same premise when they were called Princesses of Heart.

Kingdom Hearts didn't go on and on about the "childish beauty" of the Princesses of Heart.

Not as such, but I seem to remember it making a fairly big deal out of their purity and innocence and so forth. And the choice of words notwithstanding, what actually happens to them is largely identical.

Still, the emphasis was on the purity of their hearts. In this fic it sounds like they're talking more about their bodies.

Aw, thank you!

edited 6th May '12 12:42:42 AM by Mazz

I think I'll defer to Mazz on this one as someone who can not only read the original version, but also read a lot more than me. And I'll give Mazz +1 internets for managing that.

"Nullius addictus iurare in verba magistri, quo me cumque rapit tempestas, deferor hospes."

Only if "common misconception" is your word for 'slang' or 'colloquialism'. Anime fans do use 'loli' to means 'female child'. It doesn't matter what the dictionary definition is*

. The fact is a certain set of people use and understand the word in this specific way.

This must be remembered when dealing with works written by these people. This is just a fanfic, after all. No wonder it uses the fandom colloquialisms.

Well... From what I have discerned from all this, this is a Mega Crossover Self-Insert Meta Crack Fic whose author seems to misunderstand the exact definition of lolicon. Heck, before I went to TV Tropes, I also confused the meaning for "lolicon" as deliberately cute pre-teen girls.

If I had a vote, I would say to vote to keep due to its content not quite fulfilling the bill as "pedoshit". However, the page would need to be tidied up a bit. It seems to be more of a jumbled adventure where the author misses several terms' meanings.

Indeed! Remember, the author has quite an unusual taste in anime and its culture. He might as well also confused the meanings for several terms during writing. Though, I have one question, can we contact the author to get better information?

edited 6th May '12 9:49:16 AM by Delvarian

Always looking for a good MMORPG with a great community...

Lolicon means multiple related things. It can be an actual, real life pedophile or it can be the currently locked article we have on the subject where it's played for laughs. It can also refer to a marketing/genre of sorts where a young girl is said to be there for lolicon fanservice, which is not necessarily sexual. In this case, the girl would be called a loli. Literally, loli would just mean young girl, but as has been noted, it also frequently includes an assumption of sexualization, which is why we are currently not using the word anymore.

In this case, I would thus interpret the title as meaning 'Knight of' being 'Defender of' and 'Lolicon' being not the pedophile (harmless or not) but rather of the interests as noted above. I'm not going to read this fanfic because first, I try to avoid fanfiction in general and second, it sounds really bizarre, but I presume if it's using the word 'loli' it is using it correctly. From what I've heard, it is simply not attaching the sexualization aspect.

Basically, a strange and misleading title, but one that is apparently technically accurate in terms of fanspeak without actually necessarily be pedophilic in nature. Make of that what you will.

edited 6th May '12 9:57:14 AM by Arha

If it helps I just typed "loli definition" into google and got

"Web definitions: short for lolita meaning pre-teenage girls; should not be confused with Lolita fashion.."

Go ahead and try it if you don't believe me.

Yes, that's what loli means. I believe the word can be used to describe someone who has physically just entered puberty, but no older than that. You would not use it to describe a sixteen year old who looks like a normal sixteen year old, though it could be used for someone who looks twelve but is actually twenty. Reversed, tt wouldn't be used for someone who looks twenty but is actually twelve.

Unless the author was misusing the word (and the presence of Rin from Inuyasha makes that somewhat doubtful) I would say the story revolves around a bunch of little girls. Whether or not they are sexualized is up for people who have read the thing to decide.

edited 6th May '12 10:10:52 AM by Arha

I suggest keeping it.

Or, alternatively, "accidentally losing the page" but not actually removing it under P5 guidelines.

I more worry about what precedent axing something that is, from what I can tell, more about giving little girls non-sexual hugs than anything sexual sets.

Unless hugs are sexual. Or an obvious metaphor.

I thought one of the main "missions" or "goals" in the story of this fanfic was to the fight against the "perverted" meaning of "lolicon" and strive for its "original" meaning. I think the author was kinda referring towards being a Child Lover and fighting for them, not a pedo-ish... I think at least.

I found the girls to be more akin to the Princeses of Heart IMO. Though, with more focus on their physical aspects yet, by doing so, fulfilling the role of the author's definition of being a "loli" - being a cute pre-teen girl.

edited 6th May '12 10:22:38 AM by Delvarian

Always looking for a good MMORPG with a great community...

"I thought one of the main "missions" or "goals" in the story of this fanfic was to the fight against the "perverted" meaning of "lolicon" and strive for its "original" meaning."

It's original meaning being "Lolita complex"...you know, pedophilia.

To most anime fans (which the author obviously is), loli is synonymous with little girl, no sexual connotations involved, which seems to be what he was going for.