1 2 3 4
Just zis guy
I haven't read the fic in question, but it seems to me like violence is not the same thing as porn.
In the US, violence tends to get less scrutiny than sex. Fast Eddie
has said, IIRC, that US standards will apply, given the servers are hosted there and a majority of the site audience happens to be in the US.
edited 30th Apr '12 1:37:11 AM by Nohbody
My gut vote would be to keep it, since our content policy has to do more with explicit sex and pornography than it does with explicit violence and gorefests. But I would not be sorry to see it go.
I think it would be extremely unfortunate if people start using a purge of pornography as an excuse to try to get rid of non-pornographic violent works that have absolutely no sexual content whatsoever.
I mean, if I were to flag every work that I think contains over the top, creepy gore and violence that make me unwilling to watch it, most of the mainstream horror and slasher movies out there be flagged, and of course that would be absurd.
I think this is neither pornographic nor paedophilic so I'm surprised the discussion has gone on for so long.
"Nullius addictus iurare in verba magistri, quo me cumque rapit tempestas, deferor hospes."
The only real question here is whether over-the-top violence should be banned as well, but that's entirely up to Fast Eddie.
over-the-top violence should be banned as well
There is no way to do that without killing most war movies and every slasher film out there, and I think it safe to say that this isn't the intent to this website's administration.
I'm basically with Jack on this one; I certainly wouldn't be sad it if it got axed, but going by our current standards I see no reason to, as there's nothing sexual about it.
This doesn't seem to be what we're targeting. I don't like gorn* but it doesn't seem to be actual porn or a lemonfic.
Yeah, no, do not cut this. The content violation was started to deal with pornographic, pedo-material, and creepiness relating to the first two. I don't like the idea of that creeping out to gorn, since that's showing a decay of the 5P's purpose and well, I'd hate to use logical fallacy, but it's a slippery slope. The 5P said they were dealing with pornography and related things, but if they start axing things that are entirely outside of that area, how are we, the tropers, suppose to trust that they won't keep extending what falls under their cut policies?
Besdes, if Saw
have pages on this wiki, here's no way to cut stuff like this fic and still be taken seriously.
It would appear that one person has already voted that is as being porn. I really wish I knew what bizarre definition of porn is really be used that includes entirely non-sexual works.
It would be abusing the power of the panel to cut works that do not lie within the purview of the purpose of the panel. I for one do not trust any panel to be given the power to cut "Anything I think is creepy" rather than simply things that strictly fall within the definition of things excluded by our new content policy.
edited 30th Apr '12 5:59:50 AM by Catbert
likes the cheeses.
While I don't care for this work and would shed no tears if it didn't have a page, I do think it's something outside the scope of the P5's "Porn or paedoshit" purpose.
Panel members voting to remove this are moving away from "The panel thinks this is pornographic and should be removed" and towards "the panel doesn't like this work and it should be removed."
If Eddie decides that works like this need to be reviewed as well, it's his prerogative. AFAIK he hasn't at this time, however, and so the panel should keep its focus on works that are legitimately under the "porn/not porn" question.
edited 30th Apr '12 6:31:41 AM by Meeble
Yeah, the P5 are right now only covering the porn and pedo stuff, so they are probably not the ones that should be looking over at this fic, at least at the moment.
In the end is on Fast Eddie's judgement if he wants this sort of stuff in the wiki or not.*
* Smells like freshly painted sushi restaurant.
Start your Engine!
Yeah, if this gets cut, it may set a bad example and destroy the original intent of P5, which is to go after porn.
edited 30th Apr '12 8:42:17 AM by Psyga315
"An MMORPG without a logout button? That's a bold decision, man!"
P5 voted to keep the Human Centipede, which, IMO, does has some sexual overtones to it. So based on that precedent, the Cupcakes page should stay.
My alignment is Chaotic Cute.
Hammer of the Pervs
From a skim, my gut tells me this thing is wrong and horrible and should be cut on principle, but I don't think it qualifies as porn.
I'll do a closer reading tonight when I get home from work. I think the other three will likely decide to keep this one.
edited 30th Apr '12 9:02:24 AM by Martello
"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
But maybe they should put a warning like EXTREME VIOLENCE- DON'T GO IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT.
I've come home and I'm so cold...
I feel bad for even recommending this now. It's definitely not porn but, again, at the time no one was really sure WHAT we needed to cut at all.
Surfing the forums
I never implied that violence was automatically porn. I do believe there is violence porn though, and it's usually not meant to titillate sexually, but to titillate sadistically
. I'm using a very broad definition of porn, here.
However, I'm with Anfaublith in thinking that Cupcakes is Schmuck Bait
. Should it be cut? *shrugs*
I don't think it needs to be cut, as said before. It is neither pornographic or related to pedophillia. While it is violent, violence is not a reason to cut a page. I think there is already a warning label on the page also.
"Fruit is proof that the gods exist and love us. Just kidding! Life is meaningless."
As the person who flagged The Human Centipede
for reveiw, I was uncertain how or even if the 5P were tasked to address torture porn, and I still don't actually have a clear idea how that genre is defined. I had read that earlier something had been cut for being torture porn, but that may have been a fanfic rec instead, and I think the rules are stricter for those.
Uh yeah, I think that was the name I saw. I guess it wasn't a fanfic rec after all.
edited 30th Apr '12 10:20:23 AM by ArcadesSabboth
Oppression anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
The Demon Slayer
The main page that I'm familiar with that was cut for being "torture porn" was none other than Agony In Pink
, which was mentioned elsewhere on this thread.
edited 30th Apr '12 10:21:56 AM by TwoGunAngel
likes the cheeses.
I think the main issue here is confusion over the word "torture porn". In a cinematic context, torture porn doesn't mean literal pornography... movies like Saw, Final Destination, and Hostel are considered torture porn, and AFAIK none of them contain much in the way of sexual pornography.
It's more like Food Porn
and Gun Porn
, in that regard.
Hmm... From what I have seen and heard, it is a fiction 'very heavy
gore and torture elements to it - grimdark to say the least. However, is it torture porn? I would say no as there are no sexual elements to it. Heck, the main torturer does it for the giggles and, it seems to be portrayed as horrifying and disgusting.
I suggest that we don't cut the page but, look over it, clean it up a bit, and maybe lock the page.
EDIT: Yeah, I would like to have a definition of "torture porn" to base my assumptions off of. Right now, I'm kinda guessing.
edited 30th Apr '12 10:26:00 AM by Delvarian
Always looking for a good MMORPG with a great community...
The Demon Slayer
That would be my tack for dealing with the page in general.
edited 30th Apr '12 10:26:54 AM by TwoGunAngel