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Manga: Okane Ga Nai (Now P 5 Only)
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Manga: Okane Ga Nai (Now P5 Only):

Well I've said about all I have to say. I'm still against this series because of the older man raping a young boy thing (sorry but I still don't buy the "that's just the art style" argument) and the fact that there seems to be an even amount of explicit sex spread about.

I feel that these are the main points to be considered:

-What is the selling point of the series? Is is the story or the sex?

-Is the sex needlessly explicit?

-Is rape/pedophilia shown at all in a positive light?

I seem to be outnumbered here but oh well.

edited 3rd May '12 3:16:47 PM by KaiserMazoku

Professional Otaku
A question: out of that 2% of smut, how much of it is rape?
Go read this

"Demons run when a good man goes to war."
 103 shimaspawn, Thu, 3rd May '12 3:23:23 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
Your answers:

  • What is the selling point of the series? Is is the story or the sex? The story. It's primarily focused on the romance and the gang plotlines. Sex is a secondary thing, but with a primarily female audience it's the story that sells it over other titles.
  • Is the sex needlessly explicit? No more so than most romance novel type works.
  • Is rape/pedophilia shown at all in a positive light? Not in the least. The rape is shown as a terrible thing. There is no paedophilia.

edited 3rd May '12 3:25:26 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
sorry but I still don't buy the "that's just the art style" argument

People can always choose to not buy it, but it remains true and valid.

The reason I don't buy it is because "art style"/"really 700 years old" are common cop-outs to make an underage character "legal".

To me, there's a big difference between a 9 year old looking kid who is Really 700 Years Old and one who looks in his late teens.

[down] But if they are sicko pedos drooling over his sex scenes, wouldn't they be reading the whole thing?

edited 3rd May '12 4:36:47 PM by animeg3282

Many people could easily mistake him for a child. That's the whole issue. And I don't think they're willing to read however-many-pages to find out that he's actually 18.

I'm pretty sure that what is being judged is authorial intent, not possible Audience Reactions by hypothetical pedophiles.

Many pedophiles could mistake pretty much any bishie or uke character for a child. Many pedophiles can get off on anything with an actual child, even pure as driven snow family entertainment. We shouldn't be concerned with what "Many pedophiles" might do. We should be concerned about whether or not the content and intent of the work is to sexually exploit children.

edited 3rd May '12 5:00:35 PM by Catbert

 109 Meeble, Thu, 3rd May '12 5:25:34 PM from the ruins of Granseal
likes the cheeses.
I've read up to the beginning of volume 3, and I have to agree with the assessment that while this series does have explicit scenes here and there, it definitely does not have enough for me to consider "primarily porn." Based on the information provided over the past couple of pages, I don't see any reason to think the remainder of the series is significantly different on that front.

I personally don't feel that the "easily mistaken for a child" argument holds a lot of water. When Ayase is standing next to any character other than Kanou, it's clear that he is only a few inches shorter than the other (adult) men. In other scenes, visual cues such as Ayase's height in relation to furniture, doors, counter tops, and the like also indicate to me that he's not meant to be mistaken for a child.

Since it doesn't meet the "primarily porn" or "pedo-pandering" parts of the guidelines, I'll be voting to keep this one.
Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
 110 Caissas Death Angel, Thu, 3rd May '12 5:33:13 PM from Dumfries, SW Scotland Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
As I understand it, while Really 700 Years Old is not a defence, common sense does need to be applied (hence why P5 are making these decisions, because they're known to be good in that area) and any possible Alternate Character Interpretation used to damn a work. After all, when Fetish Fuel was removed from the site, we had to be reasonable when considering fetishes - since there exists a fetish for literally anything at all (there are users of this site who have or have had attractions to non-living objects), a line had to be drawn before the entire site was abolished on that basis.

It's the "if you hear hoof beats, think horse not zebra" thing applied to looking at images and surmising things like the character's age from the context. From the sounds of things in this thread, in this case it seems completely clear that the character is not underage, and I'm getting the impression that some people are going out of their way to allow for the possibility of the character being interpreted as underage, missing the wood for the trees in the process.

edited 3rd May '12 5:34:26 PM by CaissasDeathAngel

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
"Many people could easily mistake him for a child. That's the whole issue. And I don't think they're willing to read however-many-pages to find out that he's actually 18."

Listen I agree the 700 year old 7 year old is a shitty defense and makes me want to tear my hair out over Big Bang Ages defenders arguments, but that ain't what's happening here. He's 18 according to the story and that's what he looks like in relation to 'ordinary people' in the story outside of his giant of a boyfriend. He was made to look effeminate in order to help the female audience this is aimed at to empathize with him and realistically use him as their audience surrogate. The art is terrible hence why you have anatomy nightmares like that tub scene though and why his lover/rapist is 10 feet tall.

This isn't pandering to creepy men with windowless vans offering candy to elementary students. It's pandering to women 16-45, exactly like romance novels like Twilight do. Like Twilight their are extremely troubling themes and motifs in the series. You are right to have a little sick feeling in your gut over the way this series handles topics like homosexuality and rape. It isn't close to pedoshit though and it's not even porn, let alone rape porn. It just has a troubling as hell undercurrent. So do alot of other works.

edited 4th May '12 1:51:40 AM by TheManInBlack

 112 Martello, Thu, 3rd May '12 6:04:34 PM from Black River, NY
Hammer of the Pervs
Okay, I think we've probably heard enough about this series and the rest of the 5P can make their decisions based on the information given. Thanks for the input, everyone, but this is starting to become unpleasant and unproductive. Unless the other three would still like to hear more?

edited 3rd May '12 6:05:31 PM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
 113 Komodin, Thu, 3rd May '12 6:13:25 PM from Somewhere in Windy Hill Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Sonic Wiki Curator
Nah, I got a pretty decent amount of info on the work now.
 114 Meeble, Sun, 6th May '12 6:55:32 AM from the ruins of Granseal
likes the cheeses.
It looks like the vote on the tool is deadlocked with two angels and two devils. Assuming the missing vote is Catalogue's, we'll just have to wait until he returns for a final disposition.
Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
 115 Komodin, Sun, 6th May '12 7:01:39 AM from Somewhere in Windy Hill Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Sonic Wiki Curator
Oops! I forgot to vote; my bad!

I picked angelhead, so what should I put down for the disposition?
 116 lu 127, Sun, 6th May '12 7:02:32 AM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
Clean, maybe?
何も恐れる事わ無い
 117 Meeble, Sun, 6th May '12 7:14:38 AM from the ruins of Granseal
likes the cheeses.
I'm fine with that. I didn't see a whole lot in the trope list that needed cleaning, but I'll leave that to someone who knows the series better than I do.
Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
 118 Komodin, Sun, 6th May '12 7:15:05 AM from Somewhere in Windy Hill Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
The Sonic Wiki Curator
Okay, let's roll with that.

And, now, we're pretty much done with this. Is there anything else that we have to do?
 119 Meeble, Sun, 6th May '12 7:15:36 AM from the ruins of Granseal
likes the cheeses.
Nope, I think we're good.
Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
The system doesn't know you right now, so no post button for you.
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Total posts: 119
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