TV Tropes Org

Forums

search forum titles
google site search
Kickstarter Message
TV Tropes Needs Your Help
X
Big things are happening on TV Tropes! New admins, new designs, fewer ads, mobile versions, beta testing opportunities, thematic discovery engine, fun trope tools and toys, and much more - Learn how to help here and discuss here.
View Kickstarter Project
Total posts: [318]  1  2  3  4  5
6
 7  8  9 10 11 ... 13

Fifty Shades of Grey:

 126 De Marquis, Sun, 5th Aug '12 5:41:28 AM from Hell, USA Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
I stopped reading Alan Moore after he bastardized a living religion in "Voodoo."
“Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.”
Here's a website with a running spark of the series: www.impishidea.com
 
So I was reading through the sequel today and I came across one quote that set me off like nothing else.

“It’s my body, ” I mutter, annoyed that he hasn’t asked me.

“It’s mine, too, ” he whispers.

Context being that Christian doesn't want to use condoms because he hates them and wants Ana to get back on the pill so he won't have to use them.

That's really not okay book. Not okay at all.

edited 5th Aug '12 9:40:32 PM by Hermiethefrog

 129 Accela, Sun, 5th Aug '12 9:43:04 PM from one of my story's worlds
Nerd Mode Always On
What. NO. She is a person, not just your personal fuck-toy even though you treat her like that. SHE DOES NOT BELONG TO YOU. How the FUCK is this supposed to be a romantic/beautiful/touching/kinky romance?!
"Genius is more often found in a cracked pot than in a whole one." - E.B. White
[up] No idea. Perhaps some women have fantasies about being told what to do with their bodies?

It's problematic because let's suppose that Ana becomes pregnant and doesn't want to carry the child to term for whatever reasons. (Yes I'm heading into tricky territory by arguing this since abortion's a touchy subject.) Is Christian going to say that it's his body to that as well?

ALSO more problematic in that She does end up becoming pregnant later! She carries the child to term but, is the topic of abortion going to come up? Are they actually going to do the thing that I just described?

 131 Accela, Sun, 5th Aug '12 9:50:03 PM from one of my story's worlds
Nerd Mode Always On
Pretty much yes. I skimmed through the three books because by god, they're poorly written, but Christian throws an epic rage fit when he finds out Ana's pregnant and basically says it's all her fault and accuses her of deliberately not taking the pill regularly so she'd get pregnant. It's disgusting. And he does the whole 'pressure pressure pressure abortion pressure pressure' even though she doesn't want to.

God, I despise these books and the people who think they portray a good relationship.
"Genius is more often found in a cracked pot than in a whole one." - E.B. White
...

HE WHAT?!

Shit I thought Breaking Dawn was bad in that regard! At least in that case, Edward wanted Bella to get an abortion because the baby was going to KILL her. He was more than happy to be a father to other children that wouldn't have killed her. Yes, it was bad on his part because he was ignoring what she wanted, but still.

At least with Edward I can argue that the things he does for Bella that are fucked up are extremely misguided attempts at love.

With Christian I have a lot of difficulty seeing that. I still see everything he does for Ana as an attempt to control her. Not control her like one of his subs control, just control in general.

I don't understand. This relationship is more fucked up than Twilight. How.

 133 Accela, Sun, 5th Aug '12 10:07:48 PM from one of my story's worlds
Nerd Mode Always On
Aye, Edward is a psychotic douche, but his actions are balanced by Bella having the self-preservation skills of a brain-damaged lemming and constantly stumbling into extremely-avoidable danger. These books don't have that excuse, which makes them even more reprehensible.

I get that it's basically wish fulfillment, but then I see girls saying they wish they could get a boyfriend like Christian Grey and try out "that kinky stuff, " and I throw up a bit in my mouth. What Grey does is not BDSM. It's abuse, and it's sick.
"Genius is more often found in a cracked pot than in a whole one." - E.B. White
 134 Mort 08, Sun, 5th Aug '12 10:10:37 PM from Oklahoma Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Pirate AND writer!
-reads above posts-

O_O

-dedicates life to destroying every copy of book(s) found-
 135 Loni Jay, Sun, 5th Aug '12 10:13:34 PM from Australia Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Ewww. sad

Yes, girls, men who will force you to take drugs you don't want because they don't like condoms and they 'own your body' are romantic. Blech.
Be not afraid...
What Grey does is not BDSM. It's abuse, and it's sick.

Yes, this!

It took be until about a third of the way through the second book before I found something that I'd qualify as "healthy" BDSM.

Christian spanked Ana, Ana had specifically asked for it, made it very obvious she wanted it, and they went over the safe word beforehand. Ana found the experience enjoyable and okay, all was well.

That, however, was the third time spanking had been in the books. The first time, Ana was humiliated by it and a bit too much in pain to enjoy it. The second time, she asked Christian to do it as an experiment to see if she could handle it. She couldn't and walked out.

I think what I'm trying to say with this is what everyone else has been saying, that it's not an accurate representation of the lifestyle. If it takes you more than a book in the trilogy to show it somewhat accurately (as something both parties agree to, both enjoy, and the option to back out is very present, ) then you're doing it wrong.

I sincerely hope that if any women do look into these things that they'll do more research before practicing it and realize this for themselves, but I'd probably be putting a bit too much faith in them for that. Shame.

 137 Accela, Sun, 5th Aug '12 10:25:18 PM from one of my story's worlds
Nerd Mode Always On
This sort of thing wouldn't bother me if...you know...it never left the realm of fanfic. Or if it had sold a few copies and quietly disappeared because people realized it was badly-written, badly-researched fanfic porn.

But no, it goes and sells 20 million bloody copies and everyone is going all "Oooooh, it's empowering for women discovering their fetishes" and "Oooooh, this is so sexy" and GAH. Why does this shit sell so well?
"Genius is more often found in a cracked pot than in a whole one." - E.B. White
 138 Nexus, Mon, 6th Aug '12 1:43:46 AM from The Other Side Relationship Status: Seeking boyfriend-free girl
Mostly A Lurker
-Reads above posts-

...

 139 Mr Mallard, Mon, 6th Aug '12 4:49:50 AM from Australia, mate
It's true: the books show an incredibly unhealthy BDSM relationship. The scary part is that people like this actually exist.

I actually read about a relationship like this about an hour ago: The woman had a "no-no list", and he said he'd obey it. By the time they met, he'd talked her into taking half the stuff off her list. He then proceeded to choke her until she nearly passed out, despite "No full-out violence" being on her list. Turns out "breath play" is a fetish and wasn't on her list, so oh well. He pushed her into her own closet, where she was hit in the eye by a coathanger, luckily not causing any damage to the eyeball but giving her a black eye.

The second meeting (oh yes, she went back), he took an unsterilised pocket knife out and cut her back for a little bit. While her list clearly stated "Only small amounts of cutting with a sterilised blade". He then took her off the bed , hitting her knees hard of the floor first, before going into the kitchen (Once again a no-no; her blinds were clear and she lived next door to small children), grabbing a spatula and beating her with it.

The THIRD meeting... was in a public place. She called him for coffee, they talked about it all, and you know what he said?

"It's my body, I can do what I want to it."

He then starts a sentence about scoping out a high school before stopping, and this convinces her to leave. So he follows her out, and bars her from her car. An old couple commented on them being a "cute couple", and the woman got away.

Now, it isn't 100% like 50 Shades. But a large, connected thread is the dom saying the sub's body is his. Not to mention the copious violence and at one point ignoring a safe-word to satisfy themselves. This was before the book was published, several years ago. They've existed for a while now.

But this book can potentially draw in more people looking to get their rocks off the same way the guy and Christian Gray do. It's also encouraging the existing assholes to keep doing it their way. This is why I do not like the books: there is a CHANCE that they will breed more psychopathic doms. This will make the community more unsafe for submissives. It can, and it will, result in permanent physical and mental scarring, and maybe a death or 2.

(The fact that the woman breaks up with him at the end of 1 is encouraging. The fact that she GETS BACK TOGETHER WITH HIM for the sequels is not.)
When life is holding you hostage, is it any wonder you develop Stockholm Syndrome? - Malchus
 140 Journeyman, Mon, 6th Aug '12 2:11:44 PM from Here and there.
It's the Over Lord!
[up]So far, the only actual opinions I've heard from people reading it are "I want to see where she goes with this" and someone related to that reader calling it sick. evil grin >.> She told him to read it next . . .

I would say a good chunk of those 20 million copies were bought with malice aforethought, and not much actual thought.

edited 6th Aug '12 2:12:12 PM by Journeyman

When the hammer falls and your world shatters, I'll be there to cut the handle and pick up your pieces.
Everyone I've talked to on the internet has either

1. Bought the copy of the book so they could see if it was as horrible as they heard or

2. Got it from a mom who wanted to read it for ... other reasons.

What is it with people's moms though?

My mom wants to read it but I think she sees it more as a social experiment. She's read enough books to have good tastes anyways, she would recognize/does recognize it as questionable.

 142 Mort 08, Mon, 6th Aug '12 2:26:20 PM from Oklahoma Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Pirate AND writer!
My mom's horrified by the fact that it's done so well.
Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk
That whole "I'm not gonna wear a condom" thing... OK, forget BDSM, that's a straight-up abusive relationship. I told my husband about it, and he was absolutely disgusted at the thought of a man behaving that way towards his girlfriend.

This series seems so over the top and deliberately disgusting, I'm starting to wonder if the last book will deconstruct the entire Bastard Boyfriend / Abuse Portrayed As Sexy clusterfuck.

Also, I hate that the boyfriend's last name is 'Grey'. It just screams "I named him that so the title can be punny and symbolic!"

edited 6th Aug '12 2:52:10 PM by DoktorvonEurotrash

It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird
 144 Accela, Mon, 6th Aug '12 2:54:06 PM from one of my story's worlds
Nerd Mode Always On
It doesn't. It's played straight and there's magical happy babies ever after.
"Genius is more often found in a cracked pot than in a whole one." - E.B. White
 145 Journeyman, Mon, 6th Aug '12 2:54:39 PM from Here and there.
It's the Over Lord!
[up][up]A false symbol then, as his soul is as black as the airless void between the stars, and the only shade is the Demon coming to drag him to Hell when he dies. tongue

edited 6th Aug '12 3:18:14 PM by Journeyman

When the hammer falls and your world shatters, I'll be there to cut the handle and pick up your pieces.
Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk
[up][up]Oh good... because that sounds like a healthy, stable environment to raise children in.

[up]Made me roll around on the proverbial floor. Good job!

edited 6th Aug '12 3:04:22 PM by DoktorvonEurotrash

It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird
[up] Why do you think I'm continuing to force myself to read this damn series?

I agree with your statement and I'm curious to see how horrible it's going to be.

 148 Journeyman, Mon, 6th Aug '12 3:21:01 PM from Here and there.
It's the Over Lord!
It's based off of Twilight, and the author absolutely throws a fit if she's called out on it. Just from what this thread has said. That does not sound at all like a parody/deconstruction of the Abuse is Good wave hitting literature. . . if it were, the damn author would proudly declare what it's based on, and just how far she's willing to push that.
When the hammer falls and your world shatters, I'll be there to cut the handle and pick up your pieces.
 149 Tam H 70, Mon, 6th Aug '12 9:24:52 PM from 合計虐殺 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
War ALWAYS changes. Man does not.
There are far more stories out there on that there net thing that treat BDSM with a damned sight more respect than this idiot of whom you are talking about seems to be doing. And if you violate the rules, that it has to be safe, sane, and consensual, it can have severe consequences.

Terminal in some cases.

So, don't read this fifty shades of fucked up shit if you are curious about BDSM and want to see it done properly.
 150 Journeyman, Tue, 7th Aug '12 5:58:54 AM from Here and there.
It's the Over Lord!
I just realized that this shit actually would have a fertile fanbase . . .

See, I have an account on something called Second Life. It's one of those virtual worlds like IMVU, where people create avatars and "live" vicariously through them. Unlike IMVU, SL does have sex. Know what else is popular there? Gor. For those who don't know, it's the most sexist, abusive piece of shit form of BDSM there is. Every woman is a slave inside, whether she knows it or not, whether she likes it or not, and it's our job as men to treat them as such. It involves things like isolation, sensory deprivation, and basically breaking people in.

I've really never seen many Gorean Doms, but I've run into a shit ton of submissives who practice it on there . . . -Shudders- Considering both SL and this are fantasy, I'm sure there are plenty of people who engage in both.

The kicker? The Gorean Lifestyle comes straight from a bunch of novels like this one, which were written a long time ago.

edited 7th Aug '12 5:59:19 AM by Journeyman

When the hammer falls and your world shatters, I'll be there to cut the handle and pick up your pieces.
Total posts: 318
 1  2  3  4  5
6
 7  8  9 10 11 ... 13


TV Tropes by TV Tropes Foundation, LLC is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from thestaff@tvtropes.org.
Privacy Policy